NY Times: Cruze "Fossil fuel milage champ"; hybrids still win city, burbs

The diesels premium(s) of $3k initial higher price, 10-15% higher cost/gallon, and poor reliability just do not leave them much of a market outside of the fools who tout "German engineering" from the TV ads, and kids who hope that high torque will somehow improve their self-image.

 

Bob Lutz: “I’ll Take The Blame For GM’s Weight Problem” | The Truth About Cars

Yep. There was also this funny comment that someone made in 2011:

 

I have a new idea for Toyota's marketing department: "Affordable Japanese build quality." I assure you more people will pay for that than German engineering.

 

It gets better mpg than 95% of vehicles sold and you consider that the status quo?

What made a diesel compelling to me was it was cheaper than the hybrids, I found it more enjoyable to drive, and it burned a cheaper fuel in the season where I do most of my driving. Some people find the torque part of fun to drive, some enjoy refueling less frequently, some like the tune-ability of the engines. There are some aspects of fun to drive that come with the engine even when there's a gas version of the same vehicle.

 

Black fumes is comparable to bringing up Sudbury's nickel plant.

 

Percentages are a greenwashing trap many easily fall into. Look at the actual numbers instead.

The real-world average for my 2010 Prius was 50 MPG. For my 2012 Prius PHV, it's 77 MPG.

33 MPG combined estimate is terrible, period. What will real-world averages be?

 

So what do you consider as not terrible? The top 1% of vehicles?

 

Turbo lag, cost and maintenance of DEF, price and availability of diesel fuel, driving and idling noise with windows down, etc....Cruze eco may do better in city mpg because of weight. Compare Side-by-Side

 

That's why some people don't like diesels. Just as some people find they like how they drive, others do not. Good thing we have choices. However, I enjoy driving with my windows down and hear more of the vehicles next to me than my own car.

 

You can't compare a mere conspiracy to something that you can actually see happening in the air.

 

Bad joke, you are ignorant, or you just like to BS/troll:






Numbers from Fueleconomy.gov

 

Both are things of the past. Unless a person has removed the DPF but that is not really a trait of the car.

 

Again, no percentages. They are only a relative measure.

We are over a decade into the 21st Century. MPG averages below 40 are terrible, settling, status quo.

50 MPG is not terrible. It's a reasonable benchmark for practical & affordable (as well as clean) efficiency.

 

Modern clean diesels like the cruise diesel, does not put out anything near the pollution of old diesels. The dpf and def based scr makes it cleaner than the bulk of new gasoline cars. US standards are much higher than European standards for pollution, and the diesels that meet US standards are more expensive.

That doesn't mean they will sell well in the US, but we should look at pollutants as they are, not as they used to be.

These diesels do get much better milage than the bulk of the new gasoline cars also, but the OP NYT article was truly misleading.

 

Then feel free to call them "not as filthy as before diesels," NOT "clean."

The EPA pollution ratings of 5 and 6 suggest they are middling polluters in terms of the overall fleet. Compared to PZEV, available in many petrol only and hybrid cars, these cars remain filthy.

 

That too is a relative measure. "Clean" doesn't actually tell us much.

SULEV and PZEV are specific emission rating categories, with detailed criteria.

 

But certainly more CO2 than Cruze Eco, or a non-hybrid Honda Civic. Compare Side-by-Side

 

A 50mpg benchmark is quite hard to reach when it includes so few choices on how to get there. I know I won't be making it there for a while until it includes vehicles which meet my criteria.

 

You can look up the ratings versus say the old diesels. They have dropped a great deal. In a city like LA, the exhaust from a prius is likely cleaner than the air that went into it. In a new clean diesel it will have less soot because of the filter.

There is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to low emissions, and somehow we seem to think that that old diesel bus and a new diesel car is similar. Clean is not a relative measure, it means that it conforms to current EPA standards which are much tougher than the european 5 standards

When it comes to the US, even vw sees an advantage of hybrid gasoline over diesels, and that is saying something. The regulations to keep emissions low have added a great deal of weight and expensive equipment. A cruise diesel outweighs a prius by over 400lbs.

 

Maybe the Cruze is just overweight. A Passat TDI weighs about the same as a Camry Hybrid. Which is actually less than the Cruze TD.