Charging infrastructure not ready

I am not able to access the images you posted.

 

Without new powerplants we will have even bigger problems and soon, you want electric cars, then you have to pay for more power generation. Nuclear, natural gas or coal-name your poison.

 

Personally, I don't think EV's will be that popular until they could overcome the shortcoming of the battery. Unlike electronics, battery price will remain high because lithium isn't something easy to find and it takes a lot of work to extract and purify. The process of making lithium batteries is also complicated and time consuming. I believe the technology is solid but most consumers aren't willing to pay for it. That's why the government had to offer tax credits to get people to become early adapters.

 

We had some disturbing developments recently at work. A few weeks ago they dropped the cost from $2.oo an hour and made the chargers free. There are 4 chargers, two in front of spots reserved for two Nissan Leaf drivers and 2 that are open for use. There is no EV only signage but they had 6 spaces coned off so that people could access 3 of the chargers.

A couple of weeks ago there was a BMW Z8 parked in one of the coned off spaces. The parking guys put a note on it telling the driver not to park in that spot. I have to assume that the driver must have been someone important because a couple of days later the cone was removed from the space he was parked in. I checked the chargers yesterday and all the cones had been removed and the spaces were all iced except for the two reserved spaces and a Volt that squats at one of the other chargers.

It should also be noted that in the 3 months I have been using this parking lot I have only seen the chargers in the two reserved spaces used once. The Volt at least uses the charger on a regular basis.

Today I parked in one of the spaces where the cord from the charger will reach and left a note on my car with my phone number in case anyone wanted to use the charger. I figure that was better than having some giant SUV blocking access to the charger.

 

The tax credits were available with the NiCads years ago, I would have bought my

Cont ..... My 2005 without the tax credit.

No doubt, there will be a big lag in infrastructure, Chargepoints, until Americans have many more EVs, then a flood of construction will happen. Under the free economy things must progress in this manner so people can make a buck. Be forewarned, one day all charging will cost, perhaps even close to the price of gasoline. But, charging at home will still be cheaper...hopefully. The ideal of course is home solar panels capable of all home loads. Right now, with free chargepoints, we are living in nirvana, be Thankful!.......keep it quiet and don't tell the general public. Let's not ruin things.

 

Are you talking about the tax credit for the Prius? Not a lot of people took an advantage of that either. First of all, back then the Prius Gen 2 is ugly. It didn't attract a lot of people. Secondly, gas was cheap. Prius didn't become popular until gas price shot up.

Prius vs PiP. When you buy a Prius, your fuel savings is not limited. It's only limited by what the gas tank could hold. The PiP is an option that was added to the Prius. It's an expensive option and more expensive if you don't quality for the tax credit. Furthermore, your savings is limited by what the battery could hold and it holds very little. Once your electricity runs out, your savings stop until you could charge again. If money wasn't an issue, of course we all would get an PiP. No doubt about that.

 

Typical cluster fudge!
The Z8 driver is what I refer to as one of the "special ones" you know- the ones that the rules don't apply to!

These types of antics may kill the pure EV's faster than anything else.
Once you've been involved in some sort of EV parking altercation- it begins to leave a bad taste in your mouth. If you have to get aggravated every day even before work- it really makes you wonder if it's worth it to free recharge.
Knowing what I do now (driving the PIP for 9 months) and having to go through the daily parking BS that I've been dealing with- there's not much chance that I'd buy a pure EV or even recommend the PIP to a friend who has the notion of using free public charging high up on his list of desires.

+1
In the future can imagine something like a "capacitance jell" (with a nod to Demolition Man) filling what we now use as a fuel tank in our cars.
You pull in to the "jell station" connect the dual hose connector to the fill port on your car- one hose quickly sucks out the depleted capacitance jell while the other hose pumps fully charged capacitance jell back in the tank. The whole thing would take the same amount of time it presently takes to fill our cars with gasoline now- rather than charging our batteries for 2-12hrs.
Of course someone needs to invent capacitance jell first!

 

It is really sweet having a name for something, before it is invented. Who needs Science Fiction?

. I agree, this will discourage 2nd time buyers.

I never considered the Gen 2 ugly, the same basic lines are in the Gen 3. I don't buy a car for beauty. Only for Utility. Most of us are extremely happy with our PIPs. The other day my PIP got 61mpg in HV mode. NO OTHER CAR CAN DUPLICATE THAT.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this energy jell became a reality. However, it all comes down to money. How much a company need to invest in R&D. How much consumers are willing to pay. Which infrastructure will win at least temporarily. The way I see it, Natural Gas and Propane will beat EV eventually if battery technology doesn't keep up. With a NG car, I could pull into a fuel station, disconnect the tank and swap it with a pre-filled tank. I would in and out in less than 10 minutes, max. Unlike the jell, there's nothing to suck out and nothing to pump in.

Like I said, if money wasn't an issue, PiP is the way to go instead of the standard Prius. In fact, if someone like my neighbor who only drive short distance occasionally, even a plain Prius wouldn't be a good fit for him. He'll never be able to recover the higher premium of a hybrid. I got a Prius because I believe I will recover the higher initial cost of a hybrid in a few years thru fuel savings. If I didn't believe that, I mind as well get a regular gas car. At least with gas car, I have a bigger selections to choose from.

Going from the Prius to PiP, there is another premium one must pay. Here's where the battery comes into play. Since the battery holds so little, it could take someone a very long time to recover the premium. A person must be able to charge at least twice a day in order to make the PiP worthwhile. Preferably, he/she would want to get the charge for free. This would decrease the payback period. I don't have those options at my disposal so PiP isn't right for me.

 

There are several people on this site that get extrodinary mileage. Mostly from driving primarily in EV mode. It is not unusual for commuters to spend 1/4 to 1/2 of what they were previously spending on gas, when going from a P/U , SUV, Van to a Hybrid or PIP. SO ....... I would say that is a significant and real savings. For the life of me, I cannot understand why everybody is not rushing to buy a PIP or Hybrid,
Any make.

 

But the capacitance jell could recharged over and over again from renewable sources like solar, etc then pumped back into the next car unlike finite resources like NG, etc.

 

Hybrids are not competing with SUV's or vans. They are competing with other compact gas cars that gets 30 to 35 mpg. SUV and vans are more comfortable so of course one has to pay a price for that luxury via higher gas consumption.

Besides MPG, one must look at how long is the payback period. If someone who only drive 7K miles a year, he may or may not ever recover the higher cost of buying a hybrid.

True...but consumers don't care. They go with whatever is convenient and cheap. We have enough NG on this planet to last another couple of hundred years.

 

You seem to be totally mesmerized with cost and payback, but that's alright, so are most of us, especially cost. I have been driving efficient cars, that is non American,since 1961. My primary criteria has always been MPG. As far as cost, I have bought what I could afford, as far as payback,it is all too complicated to contemplate. Any car and every car is a loss, with very few exceptions, perhaps antique, classics, luxurious cars like a RollsRoyce or Bentley. All totally out of the affordability of the average Joe. When you buy a car, you lose money, that's a given. So why worry about Payback?

 

For most people, cars are consider expense. The payback I'm referring to isn't about capital gain, it's more about reducing the size of expense. Hybrid cars cost more than compact gas cars. To justify the difference, I need to find another expense item that I could reduce and that item is gas. The payback period will be different for everyone depending on their driving need. MPG is a measurement of how far you could go per gallon of gas. It does not say anything about how long it'll take for someone to recover the higher cost of a hybrid.

 

I'll go along with that.

 

Why do you want to calculate the payback in terms of years rather than in terms of miles driven?
A car is worth more because it gets better mpg...and a car with equal age to another car but with fewer miles on it is worth more.

Mike

 

Most minivans are ugly. They sell a lot of them.

Mike

 

If most charging is at night we do not need new power plants, just more fuel for existing power plants. With smart meters it will be relatively easy to convince people to charge mostly at night by adjusting the rates...and as a by product, probably also get people to shift some other activities to times of lower electrical demand (dishwashers, washing/drying clothes, etc.)

Mike

 

I'm sure that if those ugly Prius Gen 2 could carry 7 people comfortably, Toyota would have sold many of them.

 

You speak like the battery will never die and it's free to get it replaced. If I don't drive enough miles, I may never recover the higher initial cost and the battery may die before I get my payback. Battery warranty only last so long.

As Toyota start producing newer and newer hybrids, my Prius will worth less and less no matter how little miles I put on it. You must be confusing the Prius with an exotic car.