BMW i3 starts near $35,000; NA first deliveries January 2014

California has over 1,400 miles of HOV lane miles. It seems the design goal of BEVx is to use EV miles as the primary power source. CARB's responsibility is to control the quality of air so they need to control the exhaust emission. That means rewarding more to the vehicle with at least 80 EV miles first and doesn't have a button to turn on the 37 MPG gas engine, like Volt.

Remember, the prior yellow HOV sticker required minimum of 45 MPG gas engine and AT-PZEV emission. The current sticker relaxed that MPG requirement and allowed Volt because it has electric miles.

 

It isn't just Austin's conjecture.
"The big, and so far unanswered, question will be whether a range-extended i3 will suffer performance shortfalls in other, more demanding situations.
Consider, for example, a heavily loaded range-extended electric car on a 10-mile uphill grade at freeway speeds.
Once the buffer capacity of the pack is depleted, would a 40- or 50-kW generator be enough to keep the i3 at maximum speed on that freeway?"
and
"Herbert Diess, global R&D boss for BMW, was recently quoted on the ReX range extender in Plastics News (in an article originally published in trade weekly Automotive News).
Diess explained the company's point of view, reinforcing the viewpoint cited at the launch:
The range extender is not intended for daily use. It's for situations when the driver needs to extend the range of the vehicle to reach the next charging station. Therefore, the i3 probably won't be the choice for customers with a need for an extended range."
BMW i3 Electric Car: ReX Range Extender Not For Daily Use? (Page 2)
By BMW's admission the range extender isn't for regular use, but as emergency back up. It might give full performance. IIRC, the Long Ranger trailer did for BEVs of that time, but we really won't know until the long distance test drives are reported. From BMW's stance I wouldn't hold my breath on full performance.

The $2k is an estimate based on European pricing of 2000 Euros. Which looks like an editing of math mistake in the article.(I think the OP one)

 

I am not trying to put out conjectures. I posted the carb rules, which don't allow a driver to save battery as a buffer on extended trips. BMW has stated that there will be reduced performance. I don't think it will limp, but it will have reduced acceleration and reduced speed at hill climbing. There are always aftermarket people that provide chips to change how bmws run, and I think they may "unlock" some better charge sustain performance. We will have to wait, probably until may to see what the real limitations are. BMW seems to think that the reduced performance is fine for southern California drivers, based on their mini ev experience, but it may hurt in other places.

Absolutely but... the volt ice can provide a much bigger percentage of full power, and

IMHO the concept of EREV is that you get full performance on battery power. Both the i3 and volt do this. The volt requires a little driver interaction, to push a button to save charge, to get full performance on charge sustain mode. The BMW is a BEVx, which has been kept from allowing the driver from pushing that button. There should be a work around, but we will have to wait and see.

On i3 versus volt, they are definitely competitors but I think the i3 can help grow the market.

i3 is lightweight, and although we will need to wait for production reviews appears to handle and accelerate extremely well at lower speeds (<50 mph). For a carbon fiber/aluminum car it is extremely inexpensive. The leaked pictures look better than the camouflaged car, but its going to be a factor. I'm sure bmw is thinking it may have some kind of prius effect, its unique and people will know they are driving a BEVx. The Leaf tried this, and I think they didn't make it good looking enough and it backfired. IMHO the prius is much prettier than these two cars. My guess is 1000-2000/month in 2015 in North America if they get a national roll out and dealers get trained. I hope it gets a 90+ aer epa range, but its hard to tell from the press releases what it will get. If its less than 80 miles epa, that will hurt sales.

 

Ok, so there is a buffer. The question is how big is that buffer and how often would a normal driver would exhaust it. If Top Gear drives it, it'll easily exhaust the buffer. When I used to commute 90 miles daily with Prius, going up a long uphill at 70 mph (maintaining speed) does not even use 25 kW.

Per BMW press release, the range extender is 25 kW (34hp) and i3 weights 2,630 lbs. Assume the range extender adds 100 lbs.

i3 weights 2,730 lbs with 34 hp gas engine is 80 lbs/hp.

Volt weights 3,781 lbs with 84 hp gas engine. That's 45 lbs/hp.

PiP weights 3,150 lbs with 98 hp gas engine is 32 lbs/hp.

 

I am not sure what you are trying to say. We aren't going to know until bmw does, and they haven't decided how big the buffer is, pre production was around 3kwh. Yes they are not going to go to 0 SOC, as that could kill the battery if it was left unplugged. There will be a buffer, and bmw might let it get smaller if the ice is on and ready to recharge. BMW has said reduced performance. 25kw is very little, 25% of the prius power. Think of how long it would take to go from 50-70 on 25kw, and you have some very small hills if you are only using 25kw from the ice going up them. That's less power than a geo metro. The i3 will perform better than a 25kw car because of the buffer, but when that's gone its going to drag. As bmw says its fine for occasional use, but for daily use you'd want to have the ice kick in with more battery power to spare.

In charge depletion (EV) mode the car will feel quite agile, so the power decrease for drivers will likely be fairly dramatic. You will be going from driving a fast car to a econobox. Its not a bad thing, but its a limitation. I wouldn't buy one unless it could be chipped.

BMW says the REx weighs 120 lbs. We don't have pricing yet. The ice power to weight ratio when the minimum SOC hits is quite low for the i3, as I think you have indicated here (weight to power is high).

 

BEVx running on the range extender will operate like a series hybrid. If ICE doesn't have enough power, the battery should be able to provide 100 kW. It won't be able to discharge the full 125 kW. The "gap" was probably filled by the 25 kW ICE. The question is how long can it maintain (buffer energy) to assist. Remember, when you don't need 25 kW anymore, it can recharge the battery to return the borrowed energy when going back down. Cruising on a flat road at 65 mph only need ~10 kW.

It may not be able to drive up Eisenhower summit but they should be able to size it to cover majority of the driving conditions.

If you watch the engine power with Torque app (via OBDII), you'll be surprised how little power you actually use in your daily drivings.

As the battery size gets larger, the ICE will shrink. That seems to be the nature of plugin hybrids (perhaps Energi being the exception).

When you run out of the buffer, i3 will limp more than Volt. However, i3 can have larger reserve than Volt. It is a decision BMW will have not make how large they want to have that reserve buffer.

 

If all you are doing is cruising on flat roads no problem. Say you have hills? Say you want to accelerate when the SOC is low? BMW says performance will be reduced. If you are in the flatlands probably no problem. I doubt rolling resistance and drag will only be 10kw at 65mph, but you are probably fine. Say you want airconditioning? No reason to sugar coat it. Performance is not going to be up the the same level as the car when charged. How much will it degrade, how far is range, we are going to have to wait and see.

I am sure it will be fine as long as you are ok with reduced performance.

How much power does it take to pass? 50 to 70 when accelerating at a decent rate. What about up hill with the ac on? It is a lot more than 25kw.

No problem with the ice downsizing. I think its great that there is another choice in range/acceleration in phevs.

If you aren't going fast on big hills, the volt won't limp, but it also has user control to plan for big hills. To me its not about the volt versus i3, I hope they both do well.

I do see a problem with the charge sustain performance neutered in software, but again I hope there is one of these third party, illegal by carb standards work around.

I just was pointing out the reduction in charge sustain performance. It does matter to some of us. It will be interesting to see what the feedback is on this vehicle. I am rooting for it to be a success. When people are paying more for the i3 than the leaf, they are partially paying for that performance, and I hope it is not degraded too much by software in charge sustain mode.

 

My point was, there may not be performance reduction unless ICE can no longer sustain the charge (you run out of the buffer). That scenario may be rare and it depends on how big BMW will reserve the buffer. 1-2kWh (4-8 miles range) should be enough. Like you said, the software that manages the charge level to sustain at optimal level will also be the key.

 

I think the software is going to reduce performance so that the buffer doesn't go to the minimum. We should see that when the car is released with the ice in the us (european software may be different). I don't think that is until april, 2014. Perhaps it will limit power to 75kw or what ever eco pro+ is, I don't know. If you are used to hypermiling a prius, no problem. If you are used to driving a typical 40 mile or less a day like you stole it, you are going to notice the drop.

 

Title says it all...
Video: BMW Reveals i3

Wow. It looks even worse than I thought it would. I wonder if this is going to be a big BMW fail?

 

No, the price hasn't been announced, I presume because
a) it's something that can vary wildly due to taxation.
b) the price would have caused articles automatically to add it to the base price and $42250 + $5250 - $7,500 = $40,000.

Apparently it's e4490 ($5919 at the time) in the Netherlands.

Official: BMW i3 Range Extender Option Adds 4,490 Euros ($5,919 US) to Price Tag in Netherlands

 

I think it'll draw some sales in ZEV land. It's a luxury short-range BEV with optional range pusher/anxiety-reducer. (I believe the extender also has the secondary benefit of being able to provide heat in winter when it would most be needed). Plus the car's relatively light so should be pretty efficient.

Maybe some Tesla Model S owners will get one as a runabout.

 

Range Extender will cost $3,850. It will add 285 lbs and reduce EV range by about 10%. The rear tires are upgraded to wider 175mm and the front remains 155mm. It weights about the same as Gen1 Prius with 175mm tires on all four.

Acceleration is slower due to the RE weight.

The BEVx model starts at $45k which is $5k more than the Volt (probably more with deep Chevy deep discounts). You get twice the EV range and probably more efficient range extender.

BMW i3 Range Extender To Offer Up to 87 More Miles, Decreases Performance

 

It has a 9 liter tank. On whatever test cycle used for the 87 mile range, it gets 37mpg.

 

Interesting that they include the cdA figures.

0.69 square meters without range extender
0.71 with range extender

0.58 gen II prius (I think gen III is about the same)
0.60 volt


The new information is not as good as the leaks last week. I am curious to see the lease rates.

 

Hmmm......wondering why cdA is more w./ Rex
Weight would increase but shouldn't cdA stay the same since it's internal?

 

The rear tires are wider (less aerodynamic) on the heavier car with the Rex. This increases the cd, but frontal area remains the same. You could do a lot to improve aerodynamics to this car, which is why I am puzzled by the shape.

 

Possibly the design is the way it is to maximize interior volume in an otherwise small car.
However, I think it is still possible to make a vehicle roomy and aerodynamic, while keeping it small and light.
I wish MB would make this, it would be a great competitor to the i3. Check out the Cd!

Fish-Inspired Car | Popular Science

 

Nice, I think they likely ran into practical problems with the fish car ;-) I think someone at bmw must have liked the funky styling over aerodynamics of the i3.

The MB competitor to the i3 is a more conventional B-class, that with the help of tesla has been converted to a bev or electric drive in MB speak
Mercedes-Benz B-Class Electric On The Way, More FWD Models In A Few Years

The b-class electric drive has a coefficient of drag of 0.26 (aero enhancement was done on the gasoline model). The i3 electric only cd is 0.29, the i3 with REx cd is 0.30. The rav4 EV which is enhanced from a very unaerodynaic car is 0.30.

 

Lots of pics at More BMW i3 photos from 2013 Frankfurt Auto Show.