BMW Launches i3 Electric Vehicle Across the Globe

So they 'announced' it today and will 'launch' it 2nd quarter 2014??
I thought it was expected November?

 

I don't even want to know how much body repair is going to cost. I imagine the insurance is going to be commensurate.

 

It was expected in Europe in November, the US has always been 2014.

The rumor was Q1 for the car without the range extender, Q2 with the range extender. It appears that they have decided to delay the release of the US version of the car until the range extender was ready for the US market. I have no idea what this involves, but Q1 was not official.

The only disappointment in the announcement is pricing for the range extender, rumored to be around $2000, bmw is going to charge $3850 for the option. Here are some more details about the car and where forbes thinks it will fit in the US market.

BMW Unveils Its Funky Electric i3, Taking Aim At Both Chevy And Tesla - Forbes

The Electric BMW i3 Is Not Hot But It'll Sell - Forbes

 

Who would buy this car? Millionaires (well, multi-millionaires) would be able to afford a Model S, other people would get the Leaf or Volt or Prius C. Maybe a second fun car besides the model S?

 

That is like saying why would anyone buy a prius c, when they can get a versa for much less. Neither are top selling cars in the segment. The prius c is much more expensive but that is hardly a barrier. It doesn't need to hit the sales numbers as the leaders in the segment.... which happen not to be the cheapest.

The 3 series sells around 100,000 a year in the US. This car after tax credits is less expensive than most of that model, carbon fiber, and electric. I don't think affordability is at issue at all. BMW is not trying to sell 3 series volume with this car, they are shooting for volt/ampera volume.

 

Actually, not much less. A comparable equipped Versa hatchback is around $4,000 less than the Prius C OTR.


A Prius C is rated at 4.7L/100km, a Versa is rated 7.1L/100km. That's about $650 a year assuming 20,000km driven. I suspect it would be closer to $1,000 given my local commute. I fully expect to recoup the differences in 10 years.

 

umm that seems to be making excuses, instead of realizing people don't always buy the cheapest car.

A friend picked up a 2012 versa for just over $10K here at the beginning of the year. If you get one of the lower priced ones gas savings is never going to get close to the car price difference. Prius c is not going to get you the lowest tco, and most people don't drive like they do on those european tests.

On the other hand, how could you possibly equip a prius c like a bmw i3? Do they now have a EV and carbon fiber options? Is 11 seconds to 60 even in the same ballpark as 7? You aren't going to choose an i3 if you are happy with the rather pedestrian perforance of a prius c, and you aren't going to buy a prius c if you put a high value on handling or acceleration or technology.

Its just silliness to compare the i3 to a prius c.

Now this will be competeing with the leaf, volt, and tesla S, but each car is going for a very different niche. They will likely grow the market not out compete each other. How well this car sells will likely help determine the gen II volt, and the gen III smaller future tesla.

 

Who would buy a 3 series when they can get a 7 series? The bottom end of the luxury market is a different space to the top.

 

I was using 4.7L/100km, that's from the US test (50MPG). I average about 3.6L/100km during my local commutes, but I am sure people driving Versa can beat the US number too, so I was using the US official numbers to remove personal driving differences. I was also using the official price since a Prius C owner could have got a huge discount too. I was also comparing similarly equipped Prius C and Versa hatchback, so the comparison was fair.

If my commute was on the highway, I probably would have got a Versa instead.

We will see how well the i3 sells. Leaf's sales only went up after a major price cut. Maybe i3 buyers are less price sensitive. Then again, why not get a Model S then? Or even a used Roadster.

 

From the article:
"An optional SAE DC Combo Fast Charging port will provide an 80% charge in 20 minutes and 100% in 30 minutes.
The base i3 model starts at $41,350 and the Range Extender model comes in at $45,200, both exclusive of destination and handling fees as well as sales tax. Some federal or local credits may apply as well."

Now we are getting somewhere. An electric car that will give a near full recharge in the time it takes for a fast food lunch is getting to the point that some more folks may go for it. But it won't do much good unless there are lots of chargers everywhere and you start to have interoperability of charging stations that can operate at these speeds for many brands of electric car. (So far as I can tell, there's no such thing as regular, premium, and diesel electricity.)

The article doesn't explain what the "Range extender" is. Is it the fast charger? A bigger battery (like Tesla S)? An ICE (like Volt)?
Anyone know?

 

It's a motorcycle ICE. If I am not mistaken, it was intended for emergency only and once it kicks in, the driver would not get the acceleration they value so much. Better yet, BMW will also provide a loaner car in case the owner would like to go on a longer trip.

 

I'll try one more time. I am not insulting your choice of the prius c. I am glad toyota is offering it, and it grows the efficient car market. By insisting they need to be outfited the same way, you are missing most of the point of the versa, its a very inexpensive car. IIRC the lowest base is about $7K less on the versa verus a prius c. Most of the people buying sub compacts aren't really going for the lowest tco. If you are, and are trying to see if the prius c list pricing is "fair" sure, but a hindrance to higher sales in the US is likely acceleration, not price. For the US market the civic, corolla, cruze, and focus sell much more than than the versus even though they have higher tco.

That is important to understand when you say someone might buy a prius c instead of an i3. You can't outfit a prius c in compatible ways. Now do you understand what I am saying? No one ever buys a bmw for lowest tco. This car will become the low cost rung of the electrified luxury market.

The leaf also added range and features to get higher sales in the 2013 model. It wasn't all about cost, a lot had to do with dealer training too. One thing that came out of leaf surveys is there is still a lot of range anxiety, most owners want more miles. The 2013 added about 12 more miles, although the sticker does not reflect that (epa changed the calculation).

I don't remember where it was, but on one of these threads I predicted it would not sell that well because of the looks. To me that is the big question, not the acceleration or price. The added weight of the range extender may also make the car less fun to drive.
Here is a very pro i3 take
The i3 is BMW's Ultimate Electric Driving Machine | Autopia | Wired.com

Why not a used roadster? There are not very many on the road. This will sell much better than all the available used roadsters, and people want new cars. Why not a Tesla S? In the US the Tesla S should sell better, I am unsure about europe and china. This is at a much lower price point than the tesla S. Remember BMW sells a lot more 3 series than 7 series cars. This car may handle better than the S, as it is lighter, small turning radius, etc. It also should be easier to parellel park. Lots of reasons. The upcoming gen III smaller tesla (in 2017) is the car to compare this to, but bmw gets a head start. As an asside, I am betting real money on the gen III tesla versus whatever bmw makes, but sometimes people like funky car styling and european nameplates.

 

I understand what you are saying. I was simply saying people can buy Prius C purely for the TCO and that's what I did. Unfortunately, nobody sells an Versa for $7K here. As you said, nobody would buy an i3 for the TCO. That's exactly my point. Unlike a Prius C, the i3 purchase can't be justified using TCO. Using Versa and Prius C wasn't a good analogy since the decision there can be based on TCO alone.

As who would buy a i3, I don't know. That's my question and I guess you answered. I just didn't realize there are so many people in the states who are rich enough to buy a car just for fun. Why bother subsidize somebody else's toy then?

 

All that...and the price is reasonable. If places install fast chargers, but the cost per kwh isn't reasonable, it makes no difference, to me, for daily use.

Mike

 

This has been one of the political attacks on the tax credit, that they are for rich boys toys. Normally the attack comes from multimillionaires that support the oil subsidies. Which makes it an odd point of contention.

First let me say that the tax credits are reality, and they were set up as a level playing field. There is no means testing, or favoring of american manufacturers. Therefore when analyzing the market we should simply say the credits exist. If someone buys a Tesla S instead of bmw M5, because of tax credits that may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your perspective. The reality is without tesla we were unlikely to have the leaf or volt, and if tesla gets the credits so should bmw.

As for the politics of it all, the US subsidizes oil directly and ethanol (used to be directly, but now indirectly through mandate). The total tax credits for plug-ins during the entire program (2010-?) are less than the oil+ethanol subsidies just in 2011. There certainly are much better places to cut the budget (military and agriculture dwarf electrification). The best guesses I have seen are that US plug-ins reach a million vehicles around 2018, and subsidies for all manufacturers will end before 2020. If battery prices continue to drop as expected, and gas prices rise, then by 2020 plug-ins should be competitive without subsidy. The tax credits are to push the technology along to reach that point faster. Many disagree with the program. Is it wasteful spending for rich boys toys, or a helping hand to establish the technology? If you view oil imports as a problem it is one of the most effective programs the US has tried, but most of these DOE programs simply have gone nowhere.

 

That's different. Lemme think about that.
Never heard of a loaner ICE-car program for long trips before. That can only work when electric cars are a very small percentage of the market. Not even BMW can have a large number of back-up loaner cars in stock.

 

Good point.

 

Fiat has one with their EV.

 

The performance in CSS MODE will probably be fine, unless CD peters out right on a long, steep hill.

I have always thought that a large potential market exists of upper middle class or more affluent two car families that would be happy with with an HV/EV or HV/PHEV combo. This PHEV can also be the car for a single family. So utility is Ok, and price well within the BMV demographic. Less obvious to me is whether BMV owners will accept the styling, or whether Prius owners will consider a switch to BMV. I fall in the group that likes EVs, but is pretty loyal to Toyota/Honda. Money is not the major barrier, reliability and support are.