April-July 2013 Hybrid Dashboard Summary

Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market (TSLA)


Tesla on a tear starts to worry the big boys, MB, Audi and BMW

Go Tesla Time to bring the crown back to the USA

 

Absolutely true, but... some of the people that don't like hybrids are the autodealers, which is one reason adoption has been so slow. Bob you may want to leave out that labor union bit IIRC the prius is built in union shops in Japan, Toyota just doesn't like unions in the US. In 2050 will many auto dealers get replaced by the internet, and apple type marketing offices?

Not likely, the likely effect will be for ford and toyota to offer hybrid and perhaps phev versions to get credits to sell the other models. EPA gave truck makers time to do this, so we can expect at least F series, Turndra, and Tacoma regular cabs. GM and Chrysler make it more of a question.
Is the Regular Cab Pickup Doomed? - PickupTrucks.com News

Without hybrids regular cabs might be expensive or only offered on long bed trucks.

The new cafe rules are better than the old ones, but it is indeed stupid to ask manufacturers to make long bed extended cab trucks to save fuel. We have the coalition of CARB, IIHS, NTHSA, EPA, UAW, car companies, auto dealers/congress making some pretty convoluted rules in committee. The previous rules did help destroy the station wagon and regular cab, and substituted the SUV. At least under new rules hybrids not SUVs are encouraged.

 

Yeah, it definitely takes awhile to get an understanding. I will say that the nav system is not great, a step down from that of my 06 Prius. It's missing quite a bit of functionality (e.g. seems to be no way to enter an address by voice as the voice input options are REAL limited) and the icons that can be shown on the map (e.g. restuarants, ATMs, charging stations) are also REALLY limited vs. the Prius. There is 1 annoying address entry UI quirk that bites me frequently.

As DaveinOlyWA put it, his Prius (now former) feels like a noisy rattletrap in comparison. I agree. The Leaf's acceleration numbers aren't great but the car feels plenty fast due to the lack of NVH when accelerating hard.

Some of the audio system stuff (e.g. iPod integration, Pandora support, A2DP music streaming, etc.) is nice but are fairly common now on current cars.

Heh. Actually, I don't live in SF. I live in San Jose. I almost never would drive the Leaf to SF because I could make the drive there (~60 miles, each way, mostly highway) but can't make it home w/o charging there or on the way.

The place to talk about Leafs is Nissan Leaf Forum - Online forum for the Nissan Leaf Electric Car. I've been a member for awhile and am past 2K posts there. Due to the way the site's organized, I find it best to click My Nissan Leaf Forum • Information (View Active Topics). I think you unfortunately need to be logged in (w/o an account) to view it. My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - How do you read/keep up with posts here on MNL? is where some people discussed how they keep up.

Hill and DaveinOlyWA here on Priuschat got Leafs a LONG time ago. They're early adopters. If it hadn't been for my personal situation, I'd have gotten one long ago too. In retrospect, it's probably better that I didn't because early folks got really lousy deals on leases (IIRC) compared to current ones.

I was hanging out a bit on myrav4ev.com, but I probably will do so less as I'm not considering buying/leasing one at all now. It was on my list, but near the bottom. I had been considering the buying/leasing a Volt , buying/leasing PiP (for CA HOV sticker benefit), leasing a Fit EV (not real interested) or buying/leasing a Rav4 EV.

From a purely financial POV, the Volt would've made the most sense as I wouldn't need to keep and pay for insurance on my Prius, but I had numerous reservations about supporting GM (my parents had done so before) and I'm a bit of an EV purist (EVs don't have engines and tailpipes).

I've personally met Tony Williams (when he still had his 1st Leaf) and he did the BC2BC drive in his Leaf and recently did the reverse BC2BC rally in his Rav4 EV. Here's his post: Toyota Rav4 EV Forum • View topic - My Complaint Rant. Besides his gearbox/motor getting noisy, a few others on myrav4ev.com have had it too and some have also experienced Toyota Rav4 EV Forum • View topic - The Screen of Death... Check EV System !!, besides Tony. That's not a good sign when its sales are so puny (December 2012 Dashboard - HybridCars.com and July 2013 Dashboard - HybridCars.com). The Rav4 EV went on sale a few days before 9/28/12 (Alt Car Expo in CA). The rates they've been selling at, they'll have a hard time hitting their 2600 in 3 years.

IIRC, Tony had 0 problems w/his 2 Leafs.

Below is some stuff on ZEV compliance. Note that cars like the Prius are AT-PZEV and enhAT-PZEV examples would be the PiP and Volt... There are numerous others like those at Eligible Vehicles - Single Occupant Carpool Lane Use Stickers.
Toyota Rav4 EV Forum • View topic - Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - California ZEV (CARB) requirements for reference

Besides the 31st of the month charging timer probs (news to me), there'd been some long unresolved charging timer bugs. Let's exclude that from reliability problems. Those are just software bugs. The Tesla Model S didn't even SHIP with charging timers until a software update added them many months later.

 

Aren't foreign brands more popular in California than domestic overall?

 

I believe they are.
However, I don't think that is a cause of higher Prius sales, but a result of smaller, more fuel efficient cars being more popular in California.

The Prius has had well over a decade of being the king of fuel efficiency. It is well established as a brand now and as far as 20th century tech it is still unmatched.

That will change, as all things do, but it should carry on for some time yet.

 

Does anyone know the number of Toyota dealers in California? I can't find a number and even tried counting a list on the Toyota website but gave up when I hit 100 and had barely gotten into the B's! <ain't nobody got time for dat!>

 

Yes its a few months old but,
Prius leads 2013 California car sales; domestic brands make gains - Los Angeles Times

That compares to 44.8% average for domestic brands nationwide in 2012. Imported cars are even more skewed than foreign brands in California. Accord and Civic, although foreign branded, are domestically produced, the prius is foreign branded and produced, and other states import fewer of these.

These correspond to approximately 3.3%hybrids and 0.5% plug-ins nationally in the same period Q1 2013.

Brand preference, and desire to buy an import, are part of the picture. Its likely if toyota produced the prius in the US, that it would sell better in other states, but not california. This is only part of the picture of course as numbers above show hybrids selling above the brand preference numbers, and the prius selling better than the hondas.

Toyota seems to have given up its technical leadership to tesla, and that car is mentioned in the LA times article. I would have to believe that california having the least breathable air in the country, and the prius spewing the least pollution of any gasoline powered car without a plug, has a lot to do with it. The relatively high price of gasoline in california also has a lot to do with efficient cars doing better, but then again many californians buy guzzlers and keep old polluting cars.

In image conscious california, the prius is the least expensive car that projects a positive image to a segment of the population. I don't think that will change. Higher gas prices, and with AB32 and LCFS, california should have gas prices increase faster than the rest of the nation, should move more people to hybrids.

 

The better than average incentives for hybrids may have also helped.

 

Green Car Congress: Hybrids take 7% of California market in 1H 2013; PHEVs 0.7%; EVs 1.1%

 

Do hybrids still get HOV access in California? Or is it only PHEV and EVs now?
This is good news for hybrids either way.
But if they no longer get HOV access this is fantastic news!
One of the few remaining arguments I hear from the anti hybrid crowd is if it weren't for HOV access hybrids wouldn't sell as strongly as they do in CA.

 

The yellow CA HOV stickers for non-plugin hybrids expired a bit over 2 years ago. Thus, the yellow HOV stickers (which I have on my Prius) are now useless. More details at Eligible Vehicles - Single Occupant Carpool Lane Use Stickers.

It's basically only EVs, most PHEVs (except the '11 Volts and Volts w/o the CA enhAT-PZEV package, added partway thru the '12 model year), LPGs, CNGs and FCVs that can get (and still ahve) HOV privileges now.

Despite all this, the Prius (family) was top selling car in CA in 2012 per http://www.cncda.org/secure/GetFile.aspx?ID=2444.

 

Thanks, that is what I thought. Hopefully the rest of the nation will 'get with the program' as well