EVs Cost-competitive With Gas-powered cars by 2017?

Smart now has a $139 lease on their fortwo electric drive. That is definitely not a trophy vehicle. I think european pricing is quite different than american. I don't see them becoming mainstream until after 2020, when battery prices have come down. Most will be at least mid priced, I expect unprofitable cars like the smart fortwo ED to get cancelled when credits run out. Things like the leaf, volt, twizy, prius phv in their next generations could be quite competitive.

 

Would love to see that. That works out £100 a month. No way, well unless there's a 70% deposit and a high future value OR its the one where you lease the battery like Renaults.

 

Took another look at my link, and had missed the type 1 and 2 being 3000psi and the 3 and 4 being 3600. Listing the 3600psi gge for the 1 and 2 seems like a liability issue.



Refueling pumps only go up to 3600psi in the US. Some stations may only be 3000psi. Which seems to be the norm in Europe. It shouldn't be possible to over fill at a properly working pump for the 3600psi tanks. The required burst test of 225% rating minimum and release valve should mean no problem if a 3000psi is taken higher. It shouldn't be done as common practice.

It should be tuned for CNG, but I'm thinking what an actual first generation car will have in order to make it to market. Eventually, you'll want the model to be more efficient on the fuel used. With the price differential between the fuels, the early adopters will likely be ok with CNG efficiency being slightly handicapped.

 

No, its a us thing, what they did was drop the price of battery insurance. The lease bye out option guarantees at least 80% capacity through out the lease, and at the end, other wise you can choose to get cash or the battery replaced. That $139 includes the battery insurance. I would think smart could do something nearly as good in europe. I rent them for about $13/hr as part of the car2go service. There are special parking spaces down town, and I always have one close by. With parking $10 here, it is cheaper grabbing a car2go (I live close) then paying for parking if I am headed down town and street parking is full. I always grab a car2go if I am going to be drinking, then I am not tempted to drive, and can simply grab a cab. They are also great to take to the airport. I wouldn't buy one as my primary car though, I'd rather pay more and have a nicer vehicle. The new smart electrics are much nicer than the 2012s though.

Sure, it depends who would build it. If it was mazda, they could simply drop in a mostly stock 2L skyactiv with different pistons and 14:1 compression. Use regular gas and it goes into atkinson mode, premium or cng its high compression. Ford would likely use a 1.6L ecoboost, with different boost rates for gas versus cng. Honda and toyota would likely do exactly what you said.

 

No details yet, but most of these low lease rates usually didn't have a big gotcha previously.

There is an option to lease the battery. It seems to knock $5000 off the price of the Car, and runs $80/month. Only worth considering if you plan to keep the car less than 5 yrs. However, the lease gives a better warranty on the battery, and an annual check up on it. That will ease some people's jitters about battery life when making the BEV plunge.

 

EVs Cost-competitive With Gas-powered cars by 2017?

Nope.
Not even close.

I can buy a Versa right now for 12K.
The cheapest EV is ????
20K more than that with Government kickbacks?

They have to obfuscate that delta through leasing programs and up-optioned "base" models, but facts is facts.

Once the price for gasoline re-doubles a few more times, and the average new car price is pushed out of the Stratosphere and into the Ionosphere then EV's will be more competitive. I just don't see it in 3 years, especially when you factor in rising electricity costs.
I do think EV's have a bright future (pun almost unintended) but I just think that it's going to take a while.

***I originally said Troposphere yesterday. That's going the wrong way.....

 

Chevy Spark EV Review: Lovin' It! | PlanetSave

That is about $7K more in california than the ice spark, but suposedly according to the reviews the the ev is much nicer
Compare Side-by-Side
If the EPA numbers are right, you will save about $5500 in fuel over 5 years. That seems pretty close to break even if the ev car is just worth $1500 more than the gas car in 5 years its a wash. Choose the lease and the residuals are baked in. Your monthly car payment + fuel will be lower in the ev version.

The federal and state subsidies are what make these numbers work. The stripped leaf is not much more expensive than the spark ev. In your state and mine there are likely not state incentives, which means the numbers work out a little worse, but costs can easily be calculated on the leases.

Seriously with uncertainty about future batteries, the leases are the best deal for the consumers.

Agree with that on unsubsidized price we are likely 10 years out. It will take battery advances and oil price increases.

 

A spherical tank should be able to be inspected from above and below.
From above, maybe removing a lid similar to getting at spare tire.

20 year certification if great, and so CNG tank wins vs. Li-Ion pack in all 4: life expectancy, weight, size, and cost.

Best way to make most utility from having 2 fuels is to put a button on the dash that allows user to switch from "CNG only" to "CNG boost" - in which gasoline is used primarily, with small amounts of CNG being injected into the cylinders to improve mileage and emissions

the "CNG only" can be used by those whose commute falls within the CNG range, or who are near CNG refilling stations
the "CNG boost" can be used by highway commuters, or those on a long-distance road trip. Can also be used by those who don't have natural gas in their home, but rather top off the CNG tank, along with the gasoline tank, once a week at a local filling station

 

Scorpion,
Someone has prototyped your idea.
Ford Mustang GT Bi-Fuel CNG Quick Spin - Autoblog

This is a fairly thirsty car. A more efficient car could use a smaller tank, and might be less expensive to convert.

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None of the cars they converted appear to be on the efficient side. Probably went with the bigger cars for ease of installation.

 

I think its more about payback. A higher fuel consumption car means you save more with natural gas. The natural gas lobby partially funded the project. Still if its cng versus hydrogen, cng looks very good. At 20 mpg, and 15000 miles per year, you consume 750 gallons of gas. If you use natural gas at $2/gge less than gasoline for most of those miles you save (70% x 750) = 525 gallons. That is probably $1050/year using natural gas. In a prius with the same factors it would be 70% x 300 =210 gallons or $420/year.

The only hold up seems to be a home fueling station that works well and is affordable. It would also take a major manufacturer to want to do this, perhaps give them extra cafe credits. It would be a no go in california as pure cng gets you money and a car pool lane sticker. Even if it made more financial sense this way, you might have an ice car and a cng car instead of bifuel there. This might be popular in Houston, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia etc, where there are many cng fans but people don't want to give up convenience of gas for long trips.