New VW Diesel Could Match Hybrid Mileage

Sorry I have to disagree with the PDF being able to keep up under heavy acceleration. Saw a VW R36 (or whatever they called) the other day, a newish car I would have thought, shoots out a ton of black smogs from the traffic light all the way to the checkered flag (next traffic light). Plus, the PDF is a consumable item, so replacing one be prepared to spend AUD2000+. Good luck with that, I could replace the battery for less.

 

Regarding emissions, it should be noted that the BMW 328d actually hits SULEV emission limits despite being certified as "only" ULEV...


2014 328d (Certified Emissions (FTP @ 120,000 miles) vs. SULEV Standard)

(Grams/Mile)

Emission.........................Cert....................SULEV Standard

NMHC…….....................0.008.....................0.010 (meets)
CO..................................0.1........................1.0 (meets by a wide margin)
NOx................................0.01......................0.02 (meets)
NOx Hwy.........................0.01......................0.03 (meets)
PM..................................0.001....................0.01 (meets by a wide margin)
NMHC+NOx (US06)…...0.12.......................0.14 (meets)
NMHC+NOx (SC03).......0.01.......................0.20 (meets by a wide margin)
CO (US06)......................0.02.......................8.0 (meets by a wide margin)
CO (SC03)......................0.02.......................2.7 (meets by a wide margin)

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2014/bmw_pc_a0080350_2d0_u2_diesel.pdf


The new 535d also come VERY close to hitting SULEV, missing only the FTP75 NOx limit (by 0.01 g/mile - 0.03 g/mile cert vs. 0.02 g/mile SULEV limit).

 

Here's a photo of the typical VW customer when they bring out something "new".

 

Wow, the hate is strong in this thread. I considered a VW diesel when I bought the Prius since I drive a lot of highway miles. But I don't have a VW dealer in my town and the price premium for diesel fuel in my area is anywhere from 40-60 cents a gallon. The economics favored the Prius. Plus I have one VW to wrench on and don't have time to wrench on two!

 

I have a good excuse, I used to own VW TDIs and those days are done.

 

What happened? Seriously, thinking about getting a used Jetta TDI Sportwagen for the wife and would like to know.

 

The last one I owned was a 2009 Jetta TDI w/DSG trans. and not even counting the engine, the car was literally falling apart around me. There wasn't a single month I owned the car that it wasn't back to the dealer. Now, with the engine itself, it was ok, but the problems are with the parts around it. There's a flap in the exhaust system that tends to jam up and throw codes. The intercooler hoses build up goop in them so bad, there's guys that have had their engines swallow that goop and hydrolock or won't start in the winter because it freezes up. The HPFP problems keep popping up where they self-destruct inside and take the expensive fuel system out with it. The DSG trans was a problem from day one. It just wasn't worth it.

 

Yikes! Thanks for sharing.

 

I think that the only thing that saved my HPFP from going belly up was that I always used additives that boosted lubricity from day one with all my diesels. I still did find metal in the fuel filter though.

 

The hate we see has some merit. That for misleading marketing is a good example. We've seen focus solely on highway MPG often, which is clearly misrepresentative of what someone with a mix of driving will experience.

Ignoring emissions was be a big problem in the past. Now, we've switched to the "clean" marketing. It gives the impression of being greener than it actually is. You want to be honest about emissions, state the official rating. Using a vague adjective instead allows for incorrect assumptions.

There's also a history of reviews & comparisons with intentional bias, where they attempt to make it look fair, but we see how the data presented doesn't actually tell the whole story.

In other words, the benefit of doubt is no longer available. People have been fooled far too many times to allow claims to be accepted as-is. Without the step back to look at all that was claimed, we enable the efforts to undermine to flourish. Sadly though, that fact-checking ends up getting the "hate" label. But what else can be done?

 

What about some basic regen functions?
Diesels weigh more, so there is that much more kinetic energy to turn into kwh's.
It would raise those city mpg #'s, which is where diesels disappoint w./ respect to hybrids

 

I did on this very thread give a driving cycle example where the new ice may indeed exceed the mileage on a car like the camry hybrid. Here for the rest of the group is the publishers response to your statement.

 

I don't understand this. At highway speeds (50-90mph) the diesel should have a big advantage over an otto ice or atkinson ice if cylinder deactivtion is not being used. The diesels lean burn is generally more efficient at partial loads, but the power is there to accelerate. Size the engines for similar acceleration at these speeds to make things equal, and the diesel is going to be more efficient. If you make the ice more diesel like with di turbo and cooled egr, you should get similar efficiency to the diesel though, you do need more gears or cvt to keep the di turbo ice in its efficient range at those speeds. Hybrids advantage over diesel is only at lower speeds. At these lower speeds diesel has an advantage over non-hybrid non turbo otto ice.

 

Take a look at the press release. Nowhere does it mention hybrids, Prius, or anything like that.

http://www.media.vw.com/pressrelease/1425//volkswagen-group-america-underlines-diesel-strategy-new-engine

 

I confess I have never had my Prius over 95 MPH, when does the Diesel become more frugal?
(More importantly, I don't cruise over 71 MPH)

 

I don't know of a chart for the Passat's direct competition (Camry, Fusion) but I would expect they are less efficient than the Prius or C-Max.


Both from CleanMPG. He does very detailed mpg analysis.

 

My prius starts to become much less efficient around 75mph. At higher speeds the eCVT transmission becomes less efficient. At higher speeds, the hybrid battery can't contribute much power for very long, nor can it efficiently store power of slowing down. That means we have atkinson versus diesel. A atkinson needs to be sized bigger than a diesel to be efficient at the same higher power settings. A hybrid's ability to be more efficient at higher speeds has a lot to do with its battery sizing. Experimental data for my prius (again with 17" wheels and 205/50R17 tires was done on a 80 mph highway and 85mph toll road (before they started charging tolls). IIRC the jetta tdi becomes more efficient than the prius accounting for extra energy in diesel around 75mph. Remember the prius is a more aerodynamic car, so the diesel versus Atkinson is more efficient at much lower speeds. 75mph is a common highway speed in texas. YMMV It may be more efficient on a dollars per fuel at lower speeds. With cruise control on the jetta should show higher mpg at all typical highway speeds (55mph-85mph).

 

Odd, Seftom's graph and your text are making opposite claims. (In fairness none of the graphs we have deal in the 85 MPH range, just as I never cruise above 71, as the speed limit is 70 here and I am not interested in speeding tickets 'for science')

If we believe his graphs, the Passat is 4 MPG better than a Prius at 45 MPH, but less than 3 MPG better at 70 MPH.
You claim high speeds (above 80) are where the Passat should shine.

Meanwhile Bob Wilson's 2010 Prius graphs are almost linear in the range 45 to 75 and elevated by 5 MPG over Seftom's. (I hesitate to claim either is 'wrong' just different)



For many of us not in Utah or small areas in Texas, I suppose it is moot. (A small area in Texas may be as large as many states. The county I lived in in NV was as large as 4 states combined, but you had to choose the states carefully)