Volt price cut

That's an unexpected change in direction.

We were told quite clearly the range would remain as is, that 40 was the goal.

Makes you wonder what else will be different.

 

Seriously, I'm really interested in where that was clearly stated. Help me out to make sure I'm going to the right information source.

 

The goal of gen I was 40 miles. That came from a bunch of transportation studies about american's driving habits. They and I thought people would self select a phev where it best matched there habits. GM never stated a range goal for gen II, only cost reductions. They now have better data from On Star on real volt buyers, and people are not self selecting From the statistics, volt owners drive more a day than leaf owners and go on more long trips. They also have lower battery prices, so can combine the new data to figure out what price/range best matches their customers.

He said in that blurb 3 to 4 years, which means 2016 or 2017. People were guessing 2015 or 2016, so we can probably count out a 2015 release (although atkerson often misstates things, don't hold me to it). If batteries are $500/kwh in 2013, and fall in price 7% a year they should be $400/kwh in 2016. If the pack is 20% larger than the battery will cost (16.5 x 120% x $400) = $7920 for the battery portion. My guess is it will be more powerful (greater hp, faster 0-60) which means a more powerful inverter and motor, but this should not add much to the price. In 2020 the battery cost may be down bellow $6000.

The platform is likely the new one that the 2015 cruze will sit on, that is lighter. GM will probably add a bunch of high priced, high margin options to hit the adopters. Body style could change quite a bit like from gen I to gen II prius, so that is anyones guess.

 

Are you guys listening correctly? He said the miles range on battery will stay about the same. The 20% improvement will be the ICE mpg improvement. He says to hopefully be 50-60 mpg car.

With battery improvement making the car lighter, and updating their dinosaur ICE could make this happen.

Just look at Honda, they have their 2.0L ICE on their HAPI weighting about the same as Volt. Yet, their hybrid mode mpg is better.

 

Disassociation with the past is a good sign. Each of the where, when, and who questions makes the next step easier. And yes, I'm intentionally avoiding stirring up that nonsense again.

You want the quotes from back then, read the blogs. They are there for your convenience. My purpose is to move forward. Ask about that, you've got an audience.

Think about what the market will be like just 2 years from now. What will battery cost be then? What will people truly want for capacity? Will they fixate on MILES or will there be a focus on overall MPG instead?

 

I just listened and he was talking about the electric range, 50-60 miles of electric range.

 

Oops..... Missed it. He said about the 2014 model range being the same, then went directly talking about next Gen, which is 50-60 hopefully.

 

Just listened again. He definitely was talking battery range. He doesn't use EPA numbers, so epa 38 he is calling 40-45, and expects it to be 50-60, which I assume means an epa of 45+ miles aer. This may be an interview gaff. Its not an official anouncement, but the numbers coming in on battery cost and %electric miles make sense to be more instead of less battery.

 

what might continue to happen is that the price of Volt continues to go down as battery cost keeps going down, . Or GM can keep the car price the same but loaded with bigger battery/longer electric range.
If that's the case, the trade-in value for current Volt might go down faster than PIP since Volt's got bigger battery and battery cost goes down.

 

GM seems to plan to do a little of both. A small increase in range and a small decrease in price from now. Sometime in the gen II volt the tax credits will run out. The car .will likely get planned for that. That means a gen II volt will likely cost more to the customer once those credits run out. How much more depends on the price of batteries going down. I wouldn't be suprised if today's $35,000-$7500 tax credit = $27,500 becomes a $29,000 gen II, but that gen II will have more range.

These are initial adopter cars. You don't buy them to make money With the new price drops of the leaf and volt though, they likely will not depreciate as fast as other plug ins. I would expect a battery increase and other improvements in the next gen prius phv, and we expect that will be out in the next couple of years.

 

.

Actually, I'd expect current PiP values to fall more sharply, since they'd make no sense to value buyers.

 

I think both Volt and PIP values will go down as battery cost decreases. However, PIP's value may hold at certain point because PIP has the HSD engine that usually maintain the value of Hybrid Prius.

 

Anton Wahlman who blogs at TheStreet.com owns a Volt and is well-informed on Volt-related topics. He has sources that tell him that Volt 2.0 will come standard with a comparable 16 kWh battery and 40 mile range but with 5 seats. An optional extended battery pack would revert to 4 seats but increase the size to 20 kWh and therefore increase the range by around 20% which is consistent with the more limited story that Akerson told.

The timing of Volt 2.0 may have changed since he wrote his blog post but I would consider it interesting and potentially valid speculation.

Article Page | TheStreet

 

Here is what he put in his blog

I've got to say his crystal ball is likely broken
Did The Next Generation Of The Chevrolet Volt Just Get Pushed Back A Year? Looks Like It

I am assuming he was assuming it was coming on the new cruze platform, and simply thought that since the cruze was rumored to be coming out in 2014, so would the volt. Except that 2014 was a rumored voltec 1.5 (which may never happen), it was too early to have squeezed out the battery technology gains. The blog would have been more believable if it had used 2015 as the date. The odds are very much against a 4 seat option with a bigger battery. That doesn't make much sense. I don't know whether it will be 4 or 5 seats, but I doubt they will have both.

 

I was calculating to see if it is worth to trade-in my PIP advanced for Volt with this $5000 price-cut and fed rebate, for its extended electric range. I found I need to pay at least 5k-6k for a trade-in... not worth for the gas saved with some boost in electric range, plus I need to trade in for GM brand and sacrifice the cargo space, 5 seats, and etc (personal preferences).

With the incoming 2015 Volt, I think it's better to wait to see how the Volt 2.0 looks like, and compare it with next gen PIP with longer electric range.

 

I drove our Prius with my son to test the Leaf and Volt back to back. Both cars were wonderful. He preferred the Leaf and I preferred the Volt. We both agreed that the Gen 3 Prius, while still pretty efficient, feels several generations behind. (he is 30 and I am 60)

The Prius Plug In would not be on my list to buy, in the current format due, to a combination of performance, interior materials, displays and value not measuring up with the others. I do like its size but it is now just my wife and I at home and we have other vehicles.

The Leaf was surprisingly very peppy. The Volt had a very solid feel and accelerated very nicely and felt sporty.

For my typical drives a 35 mile range would work well.

 

The Volt is a political car, made to satisfy the government, and with government money poured into every step of the manufacture and sale. It won't help the country or the planet, because it consumes vastly more resources to make it than it will ever save. Maybe this adventure will pay off in the long run, what with introducing new technology and new manufacturing. But that will take years, if ever. It's hard to imagine the Volt will ever be worthwhile as an independent business venture, any more than the previous EV1 was.

That being said, the Volt is neat, and I'd be happy to have one. I bought the Prius C earlier this year, before this $5,000 Volt incentive. If that had been in place, I likely would stretched and gotten a Volt. I might have talked myself into spending a couple thousand more, but not seven or eight thousand more.

My greatest practical concern about the Volt would be, since production numbers are low, parts and expertise might be in limited supply if it ever needs work. But it's reported to be relatively reliable, so that risk might be worth taking. GM seems to be trying hard to see that the Volt has a good reputation, and owner satisfaction runs high.

Oh, I know this is becoming common, but I'd also be nervous about buying a car that doesn't carry a spare tire. It's comforting to know my Prius C packs a spare, even if it's limited (a "donut"). When you need a spare, you'd better have one!

If they ever update the Volt, GM will presumably replace the stock ICE with an Atkinson engine more targeted to the task, and thus increase efficiency. But if you're mostly within battery range, that won't much matter.

 

The government wanted to cancel the Volt. GM fought to keep the program, which started before the need of a bail out.

 

Like the NHW11, the Volt is a first generation with some good and not so good aspects. GM hopefully is learning lessons that the next Volt will improve upon. The second generation NHW20 was a much better product so hopefully the Volt-II will be improved.

Bob Wilson

 

today I went out and looked at the VOLT as GM Canada announced 5K price "adjustment"
a DEMO premium PACK VOLT was 41K plus dealer and on road costs 45K approx
and a NEW Prius lift back LEVEL 2 was 35K ON ROAD
and for "giggles" a iMIEV was 26K + ON ROAD costs
I liked the iMIEV WAY MORE then I thought I would and the VOLT is nice but DO NOT like the centre stack controls / INFO screen lay out and it felt typical GM "HEAVY and disconnected"