On the Psychology of Personal PV and EV ownership

I don't have a particular project to cite, but that is certainly one model.

Personally, I would not view this process as an "investment" in the way Mosaic suggests, but more as a way for folks to pool thier resources to greater benefit. If my goal is to carbon off set some (or all) of my grid energy, fi I can do that more efficiently, and ergo more cheaply clearly it would BR s smarter way to do it.

I don't have to see the net reduction in my own meter bill, as long as I see it in the (negative) meter bill in a co-op installation. One problem is the utility often does not offer as attractive net metering on a larger scale install that is not tied to the home. That ought to change IMHO.

The goal is to maximize the kwh sent to the grid by RE!


Icarus

 

So why are these projects going to Mosiac paying 6% interest when market rate is lower?

Why is Mosiac charging an annual 1% fee?

Wonder if these are credit challenged borrowers?

 

Also,

At what price for sustainability? This is mandatory in the above discussion.

In a perfect world, where price would be of no concern, then yes, the above thread would be complete.

But, as we all know, we do not live in a perfect world.

Perhaps, it is better to view the above thread as: what compromises are we willing to make?

DBCassidy

 

JMD, et al, it could be that this is the only way to obtain funding for such a project. I browsed the site for a couple minutes and my first impression is that the beneficiaries of the solar energy are organizations that cannot raise funds for this type of project without using other peoples' money (opm). That is, they don't fit in the budget process, but they do have the leeway to fund a cost savings project with opm. A 6% money factor isn't so high on a capital investment that is likely reducing energy costs dramatically. That's my uninitiated take on this.

In my opinion, crowd-sourced funding, and its cousin micro-lending, are brilliant ideas. I am a big supporter of these, with my own money 'invested' on a recurring basis. I say invested, because most loans are non-interest bearing, and those with interest are rather low rates given the relatively high risk. I suggest that one wade into these waters focused on the return 'of'' investment, rather than return 'on' investment.

For those interested, I suggest checking out Kiva.org and their recent start up Kiva Zip. There are many other ways to participate in crowd-sourced funding and micro-lending, and a Google search will keep you busy all day checking them out. Warning...it is addictive, as it will develop an interest in something larger than oneself!

SageBrush, thanks for starting this thread and getting us all off the MPG and modification topics for a few days!

 

I think I am on the side with SageBrush and Chogan2.

If you consume apples but traded them with the oranges you bought, you are still demanding and consuming apples.

 

I'm not sure I'm ready to call an improved standard of living a compromise yet. Cleaner air, water, etc. is the result of sustainability as well as vastly less trash to bury and less resources needing exploitation. Sustainability can be framed as a compromise, but I view it quite differently. Let's use the EV as an example.

The EV does not pollute directly.
An EV is much more reliable than a ICE vehicle
An EV is quieter
An EV is usually easier to repair
Etc.

I really don't see moving from ICE vehicles to EVs being a compromise. I see it a completely better method of transportation. Now I can do the same for power generation. Between wind, solar, and other renewable techniques, I see the same electrons being supplied but vastly less pollution generating those electrons.

My viewpoint here is one of finding and executing to most efficient path to getting there, no compromises are actually in play. Mental hurdles are the biggest problem. They always have been.

 

Why not invest in solar on your own rooftop?

 

I am not sure it is interst persay, but rather a return on in investment. I confess to not having read the above linked business scheme, and in fact have never heard of it until today (yesterday to be precise). Reading what little I did, suggests a X%return exclusive of management fees. I beleive what hey are suggesting is that if you inset in this PV venture, you should see a X% ROI instead of loaning money to end users at X%
Icarus

 

Because it is arguably more efficient (both economically and environmentally) to put a PV system where it gets the greatest harvest...that may not be on YOUR roof. By pooling money, you might get a bigger array for your money.

Icarus

 

^that is why we need to encourage policy makers and utilities to let PV "investors" take maximum advantge of any incentive regardless of (if) the PV is sited on their house!

If the goal societally is to maximize RE and reduce Carbon as much as possible, it only makes sense to encourage construction of the most efficient systems.

For example, if I live in Ketchikan AK with virtually no sun, I can still get a tax credit for putting up PV, but if I take that same money, and invest it in a PV installation in some sunnier location, yielding a much bigger harvest given the same hardware, I don't believe I can get the tax credit. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Icarus

 

When solar costs go down on Roof Top solutions it will explode in So Cal. Today typical unit and install can cost more than a New Prius which makes most consumers shy away from that big an investment.

My guess is When the cost is under $3,000 everyone will buy one, it will be as common as AC or a Water Heater

Most of the new home builders offer it as a option at point of sale.

The discussion to have is to make it a County or State requirement for example fire smoke detector however most builders and developers fight that legislation

Scottsdale has built in sprinkler ordinance. Builders fought that and lost

Fire Sprinkler Systems

 

I purchased my home 14 years ago from the Builder the pick list of options were endless.

I ordered AC to be plumbed. Some people argue that living so close to the ocean one does not require AC, just open the windows. However I knew that a few days a year the temp can exceed 90 degrees and heat waves occur. Comfort is important to me.

The builder charged me $600 to plumb for AC (Power etc). Many years later during a multi week heat wave I paid the Contractor to drop in the AC unit and wah la Central AC in the home.

This summer the AC was never put on, it's been a cool summer. Also everyone is out of the home weekdays working, and weekend just out and about.

If the Solar pre plumed was an option I would have made that investment.

My Electric bill costs vary from $80-$120 per month. 2 years ago we invited a SDG&E energy consultant in our home for a FREE energy audit. He wrote up a report and we followed most of the recommendations. We eliminated the Old Fridge in the garage that cooled 2 cases of bottled water my wife would grab one for her morning workout. The Fridge in the Home was replaced with a Samsung Energy Star appliance. We replaced the Dishwasher, Washing Machine and Dryer with new energy saving appliances and picked the most energy efficient ones that gave rebates from the local energy company. I replaced the Plasma TV with a LCD Energy Star rated one. We have ceiling fans in all the bedrooms and living room. Our energy bills were reduced about 10-15%

Our friend sells Commercial Solar packages. Albeit she is wrapped so tight every time I discuss Solar with her. She said that Solar in our situation will never recoup the investment although she never explains how she arrived at that conclusion. My wife said that if the Electric bill is above $300 a month than the payment on Solar will be less that the Electric Bill. That is the line when an analysis is warranted. So if you have a 4,000 square foot home with a build in Pool Solar is your savior. You may want to invite the Solar City Consultant in.

 

17% return on a Bank CD and less than 1% inflation. Currency conversion can be tricky with fluctuations

 

The Ev is still in its' infancy stage - jury is still out on this. EVs don't pollute directly depends on what energy source one uses to charge up the battery.

If the energy source is coal, the pollution has a direct impact on the environment. What one gains in clean EV operation, that gain is erased by acid rain, asthma, and heart and lung deseases.
EV reliability will be determined with the passage of time.

DBCassidy