Mitsubishi Plug-In SUV Delay

None of the dealers here will service it. Toyota hasn't even brought the prius phv to texas or florida, 2 of the top 5 states for selling plug-ins. We have one neighborhood in austin with 59 plug-ins, the densest plug-in population in the country, but toyota said they didn't want to play here, when the utility tried to work with them.

 

Hmmm...Toyota hybrids are no longer the most technically advanced in their class, just because they do not have a plug?

...Toyota still leads in sub compact, with Prius c. For everyother class, Toyota no longer leads?...

But if you look closely, in every class your are comparing to a different manufacturer: Mercedes, GM, Ford, Mitsubishi...

So it's a kind of a game Toyota vs All others

Using tax credit to lower a price tag is a remedy (once the credit ends, and it will! what happens?). The bottomline is that Volt is more expensive.
Here in Portugal is about 10 k difference...

And you are wrong about highway CTh vs Volt. Any trip longer than 150miles shows that Volt has one major technical flaw, its horrible CS mode.

Yes, Volt only seats 4. If you count the volume of the 5th passenger in the CTh, usable cargo and room passes Volt easily. You can opt, it's as practical as it can be, not a dead zone.

 

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they already sell here or do i need to say sold here.
there is a waiting list now! march 2014......

already did a testdrive
out of my budget
but i can confirm these are already sold for months over here.. no not only sold in japan

o yes around 50.000 euros.

 

While there may be a delay in the Outlander EV, everybody forgets that Mistubishi introduced the iMiev a couple of years ago already. I've had one for over a year. It is good, cheap reliable city/suburban transportation with no tailpipe.

Although you cannot buy one right now, I think MM has pulled back on the iMiev to boost production of the Oev which I suspect will be more popular given it will have the appeal of an SUV and virtually unlimited range.

Toyota still has the best hybrid, by far. And it gives anybody who drives it better mileage without special requirements like a place to plug in.

 

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Btw.........do you ever miss/need the ability to do L3 charging? I think Toyota's decision not to put in Chademo was yet another example of their disdain for the plug that I forgot to mention. 
 
I heard that all RAV4 EV's are already hard-wired for L3, you just need to have it moded with a Chademo port.

I wish to have L3 charging. At least few longer distance trips would have been nice to drive the Rav4EV with if one is provided. Even the 40amp charging is a nightmare to find in the public. At that 40amp rate, I only get 20 miles/hr charge, and do not really want to do that on longer trip.

If I can get Chademo running at full 120 amp speed. I could at least do 1 hr waiting to get 75% full of the 41.5kwh battery pack. Not 4 hrs on 30 amp charging stations.

Where did you read that there is L3 Chademo hard-wired? From what I understand, since this is Tesla's there "could" be Tesla supercharging at their stations. Which rumor is that Mercedes paid for it and has it on their B series EV wagon. Since it only has 28 kwh, L3 is not needed as bad as the Rav4EV. The EPA range is 115 for the Merc, more than the Rav.

If anyone is looking for Rav4EV like in the future with Chademo support, the Kia Soul EV will have this exact setup if they do not need 4wd or ICE for range.

 

I can answer your question about what happens after the tax-credit remedy.
When it ends, the battery price will have dropped by then.......so it won't be necessary!
Volt is not more expensive in the states
I don't know about Portugal, but I assume those are Opel Amperas, not Volts, so that may be reason for $

I am not wrong about Volt hiway numbers. I quoted EPA. If you disagree with me, you disagree with them.
The only advantage on hiway for CT200h is regular gas vs. premium for Volt.
The Lexus will be cheaper to operate on the highway because of this, and this only......not because it is more efficient.

 

Taxes are major cause for the difference between North America and European pricing. Sales tax in the US will be around 6%. The VAT in Europe can be 20% or so, and when a car price is quoted for there, the VAT is already included.
If you want to compare what the consumer pays or what the maker gets, the sales tax will have to be added to the price or the VAT subtracted.

Then imported cars, like the Volt/Ampera and PPI will likely have a tariff on top of the regular taxes.

The fact is most people don't regularly make long highway trips. This can be more true in Europe where places are closer together and there is a decent rail system. So despite its poor fuel economy on gas, and it is only poor in comparison to the Prius family, a Volt will lead to the owner using less gasoline over a year. It will use electricity. Good or bad, that depends of what the local grid uses to generate power, the choices a person has in terms of sustainable power generation, and what their priorities are.

 

Why did you assume those are Opel Amperas, not Volts? Manufactured on the same plant...should be priced much differently?
Here you are:

Opel Ampera | O carro elétrico de grande alcance da Opel Portugal

(45k€)

Chevrolet Volt – o inovador eléctrico com extensor de autonomia

(42.9k€)

[Less than 8% offset]

And of course, Lexus:

Lexus CT 200h - Compacto híbrido de luxo. Automóveis novos e usados. Lexus Hybrid Drive | Lexus

(from 31.4k€)



Regarding highway operation, Volt MPG in CS mode EPA states 37MPG, while CT is rated 41, both combined.

 

Those are not highway numbers, they are combined.
Scorpion's comments were about highway.. not combined.

Volt, on gas, is 35 City 40 Highway, CT is 43 City 40 Highway.

And if you want to look at combined you should consider truly combined (i.e. with EV)

Fuelly 2012 CT's averaging 42.9 real world (measured over about 1.2Million miles)l
Voltstats Volts averaging 138MPG real world (measured over 23 Million miles)

Though it may be difficult to every make up nearly 10K euros in price difference by fuel savings.

The real advantage to the outlander PHEV will be the cargo/passenger capacity, where as both the CT and Volt are "compact".

 

Real world MPG should adress electricity consumption...

 

Absolutely and YMMV. How different people value the electricity and the oil are also important.

Here are the volts full numbers.
Volt Stats! Tracking real world usage of Chevy Volts in the wild...
The average is 65.5 mpge, but that just values the energy content at the plug or pump. YMMV. In Texas, or Colorado, or California where it is quite easy to just buy wind or solar, most of us value the oil much more highly. In other places that are heavy coal users, ghg or particulates may be more important. Others like the DOE have devised the eGallon which is based on the cost of electricity and efficiency.

The other thing that is clear, is European prices are completely different than american prices. That seems fairly clear from the relative prices of volts/ampera verus lexus ct200 price.

 

Regarding highway operation, Volt MPG in CS mode EPA states 37MPG, while CT is rated 41, both combined.[/quote]

Absolutely. I calculate CT200h is cheaper to operate than Volt only on trips over 200 miles, which are rare.

Here are my assumptions:

$1 for electricity to give Volt its 1st 40 miles
$3.50 for regular gasoline
$4 for premium gasoline

Cost to drive Volt 200 miles: 200-40 = 160/40 = 4 gallons premium @ $4 = $16 + $1 electricity = $17
Cost to drive CT200h 200 miles: 200/40 = 5 gallons regular @ $3.50 = $17.50

The CT200h becomes progressively cheaper above 200 miles straight; The Volt is pretty much unbeatable as long as its charged no less than every 200 miles

 

Absolutely. I calculate CT200h is cheaper to operate than Volt only on trips over 200 miles, which are rare.

Here are my assumptions:

$1 for electricity to give Volt its 1st 40 miles
$3.50 for regular gasoline
$4 for premium gasoline

Cost to drive Volt 200 miles: 200-40 = 160/40 = 4 gallons premium @ $4 = $16 + $1 electricity = $17
Cost to drive CT200h 200 miles: 200/40 = 5 gallons regular @ $3.50 = $17.50

The CT200h becomes progressively cheaper above 200 miles straight; The Volt is pretty much unbeatable as long as its charged no less than every 200 miles

 

I misread you at first, I agree trips of over 100 miles are likely on the highway, and the highway portion should be given the highest consideration. Here both get an epa 40 as you have done. Price premiums for premium is rather hard to quantify as it changes quite often. Here its about a 40 cent premium, but I've seen it less than 20 cents in the past. What can be said is that as miles get above 100 per day (30,000/year) the benefits of a phev decrease. These are rare driving patterns in the US, and even more rare in Europe.

The key on the mitsubishi phev in the US is how well it does on EPA tests and pricing. Its a hit in Japan, but here it will likely just be another face in the plug-in crowd. More choice is good though.

 

Around here, 30 cents is the high for price difference between premium and regular.

 

I think the real difference between RXH/HH is that it is a real 4wd for those that needs them.... unlike the heavy gimmicky 4wd-i from Toyota.