VW To Be The Biggest Electric Car Maker...

I agree, say it "only" gets 100 mpg after the battery runs out, that still is better than anything else out there. The xl1's battery wasn't designed to go long range, it was the size they determined would give the best CS efficiency. That battery buffering allows the diesel engine to be off in all but its most efficient times, and is light enough to allow very little rolling resistance in city mileage.

I agree with those that don't think this is where tech is heading. People want more performance out of their expensive cars. The golf will be that less expensive phev
Volkswagen Golf PHEV Now Due in 2014

Tesla does have that hybrid battery up its sleave. GM and nissan have great battery tech too. By 2020, you need to be in the game, just in case one of these battery breakthroughs happen.
GM R&D Boss Hints At Tesla-Surpassing Batteries - HybridCars.com
Will Future Tesla Electric Cars Use Metal-Air Batteries?
Tesla (TSLA) to Develop Hybrid Battery Packs that Could Increase Range 40% - Analyst

 

Wikipedia is often wrong. I read 2.4 Million shares, which would be 2%. Their link did not say 10%. If Toyota really owns 10%, they would have made $2B profit on their $50M investment, but the stock has gone up 900%, not enough for that gain. I don't know what the toyota group means, panasonic also owns part of tesla. Toyota would be really stupid bad mouthing EVs as they would be making a much bigger profit on tesla stock than on the prius.

If toyota was 10% it would be on this list.
Shareholders Major TSLA Tesla Motors, Inc. including Fund and Institutional
Daimler is 4.6%

 

Toyota owned 10%. I am not sure if they still hold all of that stock, bought more, or if any dilution will occur as the bonds in the last offering get converted to stock.

But if they held on to the $50 Million in common stock, that would be worth about $500 million now. That is a hefty profit

 

Profit does not come from stock holding, only if that share is sold. The value of assets does.
Perhaps Tesla info in Wiki is outdated...

 

Great link, thanks!

Hmmm, perhaps Toyota sold their stock? Or traded it in return for the drivetrain s and tech for the Rav4 EVs?
With Toyota's public statements about EVs, itis just possible they did in fact sell. But I don't see that happening without a hue and cry from the anti EV crowd saying "see!"

 

VW's general car electronics already suck, so they want to make electricity the PRIMARY fuel for propulsion? I'm sure a bunch of college graduates in 2018 will think their EV's are hot stuff when the sign and drive event rolls around. Then they'll be rolling back into the repair shop faster than they can realize that their English degree alone won't be able to afford them living wages.

 

All of which makes me want it even more. Way more tech than an Insight, btw.
Of course, I'm probably unique in that regard, as I would be 1st in line to drive this (if it ever comes out):

 

+1

The spark is not an expensive car, but what if you could get a volt sized bev that went 200 miles, 0-60 in less than 7 seconds and cost $30,000.
GM working on 200-mile electric car, exec says - SFGate

We also have tesla's blue star for under $40,000 coming in 2017, and I'm sure nissan is working on something. We should have some fun and cheaper BEVs before 2020.

 

Your math doesn't add up:
XL1 has less than half the emissions of a Prius.
So, an XL1 with 2 people inside is still fewer emissions per-passenger-mile than a Prius with 4 people inside.
5 people in the Prius will make it close, but no one would want to be the 5th person in a Prius for anything other than a short trip

 

Owners’ worries fill VW’s silence after car death inquest Here's one of the related articles about VDub vs. media saga. Even with such a small number of complains (240 vs 26,700 cars sold for that particular made and model), VDub should have been more graceful and just deal with the issues, but instead they came out all guns blazing, threatening and treating their customers like an idiot. Unhappy driver says Volkswagen threatened his job | The Border Mail

 

Elon Musk is reported to have said of the recent enthusiasm for electric cars by the BMW,'it is about time they come to the party.'

Bob Wilson

 

No, it doesn't emit less than half.
Emissions by NEDC take in account the range with EV. If not plugin' in, this conspicous TDI draws 2 litres/100km, which is in fact 60% of a Prius HV tail pipe, adressing CO2 only. If NOx was to be adressed, maybe XL1 wouldn't sound that green...

 

Speaking of quality, someone destroyed his ultimate driving machine in front of Frankfurt Autoshow!

 

Yes.........it does.
<SIGH>

I am not using NEDC.
I am doing a straight apples-to-apples comparison of what the XL1 would achieve vs. a regular, non-plug Prius without using grid energy (or after battery has depleted)

And I am using the criteria you wanted: emissions per-passenger-mile.
Let's use your own numbers:

This 'conspicuous TDI draws 2L/100km'...........this translates to 118 mpg (U.S.)
The XL1 can achieve this, all day long, WIHOUT plugging in.

Your assumptions regarding NOx are just that.......assumptions. We don't have the numbers yet, but I wouldn't bet against the XL1. It is no ordinary TDI, it is also a hybrid. So, NOx-per-mile could very well end up being lower than Prius. Anyone concerned with particulates, soot, and NOx knows that it's not just mpg but how cleanly the engine burns the fuel....that's certainly true here. But if this is your main concern, the XL1 can shut down the ICE in city centers, per EU rules, so any health effects from emissions are negligible.

Now, back to the 118 mpg. CO2 and foreign-oil-consumption are exactly correlated with mpg. There is no other way around. You burn a gallon, you use x amount of foreign oil, and put y amount of CO2 into the atmosphere.

I agree with your numbers that a 118 mpg (diesel) XL1 is about 60% CO2/foreign oil of a 50 mpg (gasoline) Prius.
These are the numbers most people care about, and the reason most people buy green cars.
So, XL1 is far ahead, absolute and per-passenger-mile.

Travelling 118 miles------------------> XL1 uses 1 gallon diesel
CO2 1 gallon diesel = 1.15 x gasoline
1.15 divided by 2 passengers = 0.575 GGE / passenger

Travelling 118 miles--------------------> Prius uses 2.36 gallons gasoline
2.36 divided by 4 passengers = .59 gallons / passenger

Prius only comes ahead w./ 5 passengers; no one is likely to take long trip with 5 people in a Prius.
And, on shorter trips XL1 will almost certainly have opportunity to plug in.
Emissions: XL1<Prius

 

VW also claimed that they will be the number one selling brand in the US in several years! Hyundai also made that claim. I would put money on Hyundai reaching that goal well before VW does. The only VW I would buy is A classic Bug.

 

I also would not buy a vw, but especially not an old bug, but....
VW is the the third largest car company, and has a huge advantage versus gm and toyota in europa, and toyota in China. That probably means they can be the largest car company in the world, with some gains in the US and a recovery in the european automarket.

I never heard the VW group wanted to be number 1 in the US, but they should be able to gain market share.
The VW group seems like it is far behind tesla, nissan, gm, ford, and bmw in plug-in cars. I doubt they will even be number 3 in 2020. In 2030 it is anybodies guess.

 

^ In 2030 the biggest 1 (or several) car make(s) will either be Chinese owned US or EU car company or an "all" Chinese car company.

It's not just the fact that China is a huge untapped market, and it's not just the fact that the western nations are going to implode from overspending.
History has a nasty habit of repeating itself.
Japan went from a country that people snickered at for making low quality knock-offs with an underpaid, relatively unskilled but very industrious population (from the westerner's point of view) to being an economic and engineering powerhouse second to very few if any.
Toyota went on to be the biggest car maker on the planet, and the other Japanese brands are not slouches either.
If Korea continues their current trajectory they'll supplant the Japanese briefly before they in turn are engulfed by a rising tide of very high quality goods from Red China. People are starting to do a double-take at some of the Korean cars that they used to double over in laughter at a few years ago.......just like their fathers did with the Japanese makes thirty some odd years before that.

Vee Dubbaya????
Gimme a break.
How many VW dealerships are there in the USofA? NAFTA is making them a little more competitive here in the US market, but they're also suffering from a Q/A stigma which IMHO is only partially deserved, and has to do with people's perception of the quality of Mexican labor as opposed to das German volks.

Racism?

Let's not forget the billions in India, South America, and Africa.
India makes Tata's tht are....well....like Tata's....but they they don't have to stay that way. India has a strong culture of family and education and achievement, and if it's not a center of progressive thought for women's rights NOW that is changing.
The west has a culture...that....well..... .....you decide.

Vee Dubbaya is boldly stomping down the same path that GM has already well trod in the past and the reason that they're dominant on the continent has more to do with inertia and protectionists import policy than marketing or engineering prowess.
Toyota is in danger of joining them on that same path btw. How fuel efficient is a 2013 Prius when compared to a 2001?
The clock is ticking....

The really cool thing is that the consumer is going to win - just like the book says. When you get green weenies arguing about whether or not a 100mpg car is "really green" and whether $50k is "too much" to pay for it????

THAT is change I can believe in!

 

Nope. Just that VW's built in Mexico appear not to be as reliable (though not sure about the use of the word 'reliable') as the German versions. Obviously there is an issue with the Mexican factory or their suppliers or both.

It appears one of the three Japanese Prius factories builds a more unreliable car. How can that be if they're all Toyota Japan? Obviously one has bad management, a bad manager, or a higher percentage of workers who don't give a damn.

Why do things always turn to race?

 

Sorry Grumpy.
I couldn't resist myself.

No.

I don't think it's (all) racist to think that a car built in Mexico < one built on the Continent. I was (mostly) poking fun at people's perceptions.

VW had QA problems even when they were solely built on the continent.