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Is PIP reliable?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by pmv, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Anyone else remember the spin from years ago, where a certain automaker was promoting reliability based on the count of components alone? More was bad, period. Thankfully, that spin didn't last long. But it goes to show how desperation will led some to claim things without merit.
     
  2. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    Have not used my engine for TWO months. But, drive it every day.
     
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  3. Tracksyde

    Tracksyde Member

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    I think most people will agree when you say "reliability" it means "reliable from point A to B", not "will it reliably play my Taylor Swift playlist".

    Its borderline "misinformation" to say "Car A" is more "reliable" than "Car B", taking into consideration the in-car entertainment system, when we don't know (or they don't tell us) if perhaps "Car B" is generally sold with a potentially problematic in-car entertainment system where "Car A" is only sold with an AM/FM radio.

    My co-worker read that CR report on MSN yesterday and came to my office to tell me my PiP was Toyota's most unreliable car. Even after telling him that a PiP is nothing more than a Prius with a giant battery (well, relatively giant) and an on-board charger, and I've read of no issues related to the battery or on-board charger, I'm still not sure he could grasp what I was saying.
     
  4. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    What we don't know is the context that he originally made that quote in. Misrepresentation of what people actually said happens all the time in the media. I'm far from convinced that this guy is that clueless. The testing they do is too comprehensive for him not to know better. Furthermore it sounds exactly like the kind of quote that was taken entirely out of context.

    Let me ask you the electronics question another way. If the button that controls the temperature in your car stopped working, would you not consider that unreliable? What difference does it make if that interface is in a computer interface instead?

    Mechanically, almost every new car made today is statistically so reliable that there would be little point in only monitoring the mechanical aspects. It'd be splitting hairs. The industry has moved on. Manufacturers charge big money for these features, and it's a big hassle for owners when they don't work right; they should be held accountable. In the end, most of us don't care what brings us into the dealer for repair. Ignoring real issues would be doing a disservice to readers who will make purchasing decisions based on these surveys.
     
  5. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    Thats great, but how do you get around the 124 miles and then a warm up cycle?
     
  6. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    For the first time this morning the engine came on, whether because of a heavy foot or cooler temps, I am not sure. Anyway I pulled off the road and restarted. So far I have not identified this 125 warm-up cycle.
     
  7. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    Ahhh!
     
  8. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    Given the emission and mileage and safety requirements, the transport functionality on a modern car is far from an issue of simple mechanical reliability. With all the sensors and control computers, there is a whole lot that can go wrong and leave you on the side of the road waiting for a service truck. If I am driving across a desert a hundred miles from the nearest outpost of civilization, the reliability of the media player is not at the top of my list.
     
  9. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    After over a year of ownership, I have visited the dealership once, two weeks ago. They changed oil and filter. I have 2 free such service so one more year to go.

    I had them upgrade Entune also.
     
  10. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    One can always pick a remote possibility to highlight their own personal concern. Realistically your scenario is faced by a infitesimally small number of people, and any car built today would serve you well in that situation just fine the overwhelming majority of the time.

    Again, what concerns people today is a service visit to the dealer regardless of the reason why. The best makes rarely require those visits. The worst require them frequently. If they were to run the tests by your criteria, we'd be looking at numbers for even the worst manufacturers that are astonishingly small. It's much more meaningful to let people know how likely they are to have to visit the dealer for WHATEVER reason. Those are where the meaningful differences between brands and models lie today.
     
  11. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    Judging by the number of breakdowns that occur on our local freeways every day as reported by our radio traffic reporters, I would hardly consider failures that immobilize a car a remote possibility. The Dodge Durango that we had only a few years ago seems to have had hundreds of dollars of repairs every time it was taken in for routine service. Many of these problems were of the sort that, while they wouldn't immediately immobilize the car, would cause the car to fail the smog inspection required for annual registration. Those kinds of things were very real to my wife and myself, and a heck of a lot more relevant than if something weren't working quite right with the radio.
     
  12. -1-

    -1- Don

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    :confused:I've read of, a lot of Entune complaints, but I have no issues with it. That's not to say it's perfect for all. I've noticed several "perpetuated" complaints here and on other forums. One here, the factory horn on the Prius, and the masses that that replace it with a aftermarket horn. Here's my favorite, "every" (many, but not all) photos posted online via a cell phone is often listed as "please excuse my crappy cell phone photo". Most look pretty good.
     
  13. Gruvin2

    Gruvin2 Junior Member

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    2 weeks from my 1 year anniversary owning my PiP with just over 12K miles I couldn't be happier. I've taken it into the dealer for 5K & 10K service as well as a flat repair. Aside from that I have taken it in for the random free car wash whenever I think to do so. Oh, did I mention I've spent $505 in fuel since day 1. Love this car.
     
  14. Tracksyde

    Tracksyde Member

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    Yes, the temperature control is unreliable. I would agree. However, if someone asked me "how reliable is your car?" and I had no issues other than the climate control, I'd most likely say "its damn reliable". I would even throw in "well, the climate control craps out sometimes". The difference is, I would make that distinction. I wouldn't bundle a bunch of "problem areas" together to come up with a "score" and then not explain how I came to that conclusion.. especially when most people's idea of "reliability" is generally confined to mechanical issues.

    Let me ask you a question. Let's say CRs most reliable car, Car A, has an old school climate control system with the sliding mechanical levers. It never fails. However, the engine is prone to minor mechanical issues. And the least reliable car, Car B, has an electronic temperature control system that locks up and freezes for most owners, but it doesnt have too many engine related issues.

    If someone asked you which car was more reliable, what would you say?
     
  15. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    I would say whichever one required me to take time out of my life to go back to the dealer the most was the more unreliable one. I really don't care what the problem is for.

    Guys, look closely at the marketing for cars today. With the exception of some of the full sized truck ads where they really play up the machismo, nobody focuses on mechanical reliability anymore in their ads. Advertisements, from the S-Class to the Civic are all about style, features, price and economy. People who buy new cars keep them on average for only 5 years. In that period, very few cars will have a mechanical issue that will actually strand the owners. Yet most of those cars will have some other issues that require dealer visits. These surveys have been shifting to reflect this reality for the past decade or more. The idea that there are widespread mechanical issues plaguing the industry is outdated.

    Until my PIP every other car I've owned has been purchased used with over 100k on the odometer. Despite that, the last time I was hit with a mechanical breakdown on the road was in the 90's in a VW Passat. I've had lots of the other kind of issues that these surveys cover, but despite mostly driving cars well past the warranty period, it is just so rare for them to really break down in that way anymore.
     
  16. Tracksyde

    Tracksyde Member

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    Ahh.. I see.. there's the problem. I guess you would go to the dealer as quickly for an in-car entertainment system issue as you would when you're riding in a tow truck that's towing your car.

    Most people I know, myself included, would not, hence the greater emphasis on mechanical reliability.
     
  17. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    And to be clear, CR does weight serious drivetrain issues more heavily than interior electronics. So to answer your question more specifically, Tracksyde, say CR had two models with 1000 people responding each. For the first car, 2 of those 1000 had mechanical breakdowns but 200 people had interior electrical issues requiring dealer visits. Another model has 10 of 1000 with mechanical breakdowns but only 25 of 1000 with electrical issues requiring visits. I have no idea exactly how CR weights these in their formula, but I would wager that they would consider the latter car to be more reliable and I'd generally agree with them.
     
  18. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    As quickly? No. But if my brand new car stopped connecting to my iPhone? That's absolutely an issue that I'd want fixed. Most people would agree. And those are the kinds of problems that happen in volume today. Mechanical breakdowns, in general, don't.
     
  19. Tracksyde

    Tracksyde Member

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    I think I've said this a couple time already, but I agree with you. It is an issue if your phone cant connect to your car or you cant play your Taylor Swift playlist and the car is supposed to be capable of doing so.

    The issue is a car that has these issues can be called less reliable than a car that may not have these issues, yet has mechanical issues that would leave you on the side of the road.

    If you consider a car with a 1% chance of mechanical failure to be more reliable than a car with 0.2% chance of mechanical failure, then I would wager you are definitely in the minority.
     
  20. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    1% kind of falls into the range where I'm thinking 'probably not going to happen to me.' The fact that the mechanically more 'reliable' vehicle has a 20% rate of electronics failure would make me take notice.