Dashboard: Jun-Sep 2013

You won't find anything as negative from gm when they crushed the ev1, as I have heard from toyota.

Its not a different technical direction. If that was all they were doing I would have no problem. They plant these negative bev stories at least every 2 months.

In every one they say people don't want electric vehicles but do want fuel cell vehicles.
They made the false claims that long range electric vehicles are impossible. In april of this year with the reality of the broadering of the tesla, they seem to have stopped the impossible, and changed it to simply they don't have enough range.
They pull the father of the prius, even before he was chairman says fuel cells are the future, just like hybrids, electric vehicles need some miracles to work. Instead of stopping here though, they attempt to tell us why people won't buy bevs, and how fcv produce less ghg. Those ghg calculations were done in 2008 and are wrong. It might of been an honest mistake in 2008, but they have been debunked, yet toyota keeps trotting them out, and people believe them. They further use their dealer network to block tesla stores. They use their pac to try to weaken plug in credit, while trying to tax the americans for fuel cells. Its not a simple we want to go this way, its a war with nissan and gm and they will use the power of their marketing arm to try to damage plug-ins.
'Father of the Prius' Declares Electric Cars 'Not Viable'

They seem to have pulled it, perhaps because of heat from those complaining. If you want when I have time monday, I'll find you a cached version. Things shopped on the internet get cached and you can't just wipe away the nasty pr.

 

It was "talking points" that held back the acceptance of hybrids. People didn't bother actually doing any research. They'd take that hearsay as gospel and continue on with the status quo.

That attitude was quite frustrating. Thankfully, we had countless posts from new Prius owners stating their perception of changed dramatically once they got behind the wheel. The test-drive experience rapidly crushed misconceptions. Their assumptions were immediately changed by observation. They realized the system didn't actually work they way they had been told.

With respect to the new rhetoric emerging that Toyota is anti-EV, that doesn't make sense to those of us well informed about Prius. Toyota is continuing to refine their motors, software, and battery. All of that technology can also be used for electric-only vehicles. Improvements to cost & power apply anything using electricity for propulsion. It doesn't need to be an EV. In fact, the diversity helps increase volume. It's a win-win some people refuse to acknowledge.

Unless Toyota is pushing the envelope, claims are made that they've given up and are failing to compete. That doesn't add up. How could large quantities of those vehicles be delivered without addressing the need to be affordable & profitable while offering an array of choices?

 

looks like weaker sales and year coming to a end making toyota pump out a little more incentives

 

Looks pretty obvious that economy on down turn this last 30 days. Almost all types of cars on downturn for sales. I am sure October will not be much better with government workers in limbo during shutdown/budget negotiations.

 

" Thanks to a considerable reduction in the MSRP of the 2014 Prius plug-in, Toyota sold an amazing 2,095copies in October, almost double the 1,152 sold in September, narrowly beating out the Chevrolet Volt and Nissan LEAF.

• Toyota Prius PHV 2,095
• Chevrolet Volt 2,022
• Nissan LEAF 2,002
• The Toyota Prius PHV Is The Best Selling EV In America For October- And No, We Aren’t Kidding

Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard

 

Very nice!
Would love to see them expand sales to the rest of the US, they could increase those numbers dramatically.

 

Rollout of PHV has made sense.

Like the Original model, only select markets would get the opportunity to purchase. Like the Classic model, production was limited to size small enough to cause dismay. Since the goal of Prius has been to reach wide & deep into the mainstream, rushing the design that offers an option both affordable & profitable wouldn't provide any benefit. Let the hatchback, compact, and wagon become common first.

Also, it should have been obvious that Toyota didn't want to get sucked into the struggle GM was having. Volt sales have been neither affordable nor profitable. Taking such a profoundly different approach was good reason to keep distance and prevent association. After all, Volt goes out of its way to avoid using the engine and Prius PHV takes advantage of it. That sacrifice of electricity for the sake of purity is a fundamental difference which can easily contribute to consumer confusion... in a market already filled with misconceptions.

Seeing PHV sales exceed that of Volt, despite only being in available in 15 states, suggests that rollout decision is working. Knowing that only 1 of those states offers credit incentives beyond the federal credit, since there are 9 others for Volt but not for PHV, further supports it.

As more people discover plug-in hybrids offer more than just an EV experience with an engine backup, it will become easier to sell. A big part of that is simply having enough owners reporting real-world data. It's ironic how there have been many attempts to stigmatize blending over the years, none of which have been able to prevent the advancement of Prius. That only slows it down... which is exactly what's needed for greater acceptance.

 

The gen1 had limited production, but it didn't have a limited geographic area. The PPI could have been going toe to toe with the Volt and Leaf in sales numbers since June with the nationwide roll out originally planned, and really stomp them now with the new prices. How does forgoing sales help in going mainstream.

How did Toyota avoid that struggle? There are members here that have gotten their PPI for less than a regular Pruis with incentives and discounts Toyota had to put on the hood. Now that everyone else has lowered their car's price, Toyota had to do the same.

Being brand new models, no one reasonable expected the Volt or Leaf to be profitable. The PPI isn't a whole new model. The drive train has been thoroughly tested, and is in multiple models. The R&D cost for it specifically was a fraction of what GM had to spend on the Volt. The concept was already proven by DIYers and aftermarket kits for years. Toyota could have leveraged that for market share. Instead, they went for the money grab offering feature bloated PPI's only, and got lower than predicted sales in both the US and Japan when people saw that.

Let's be honest here. The decision was a reactive one to the car's poor showing in sales numbers. It might have been the correct one in terms of bottom line, but it isn't the one of vision and moving forward.

Seeing how the Ford Energi's had around double the PHV to hybrid take rate compared to the PPI since introduction, I don't think blending was the issue for the PPI.

 

October-13 /October-12 /Year-to-Date
Honda Civic 27,328 /20,687 /280,889
Toyota Corolla 23,637 /20,949 /257,184
Chevrolet Cruze 16,087 /19,121 /211.862
Ford Focus 15,108 / 18,320 /203,762
Hyundai Elantra 14,876 / 14,512 /167,087
VW Jetta/Sportwagen 11,710 /13,476 /135,983
Nissan Sentra 8399 /5,624 /106,680
Mazda3 7647 /9,518 /89,288
Dodge Dart 5617 / 5,455 /71,453
Subaru Impreza/WRX 4923 /4,738 /64,922
Kia Forte 4706 / 5,911 / 57,421
Volkswagen Golf 2249 / 2,914 / 35,322
October 2013 Compact Sales: Honda Civic Takes Top Spot from Corolla - Motor Trend WOT

October 2013 October 2012 Year-to-Date
Toyota Camry 29,144 / 29,926 / 348,134
Honda Accord 25,162 / 28,349 / 307,264
Nissan Altima 21,785 / 24,623 / 271,303
Ford Fusion 21,740 / 12,690 / 248,033
Hyundai Sonata 19,872 / 16,773 / 172,574
Chevrolet Malibu 15,746 / 9,629 / 170,696
Kia Optima 11,492 / 12,948 / 135,548
Chrysler 200 8348 / 8758 / 111,207
Volkswagen Passat 7258 / 8355 / 91,522
Dodge Avenger 5406 / 7637 / 84,005
Mazda6 3100 / 1515 / 35,632
Subaru Legacy 3090 / 3598 / 36,441
October Midsize Sales: Toyota Camry Leads Accord, Altima Once Again - Motor Trend WOT

 

Not sure what numbers are used to calculate that take rate, hope the 2 Energi's are not added just to make this point.
Also, Nissan Leaf & chevy Volt did lower their msrp for the same poor sales showing, right?
September 2013 Dashboard - HybridCars.com

Volt sales drop 32% in October | The Detroit News
.

 

Remaining flexible has always been a positive trait in the past. If your business cannot adjust to change, you lose opportunity & money.

Clearly, the greenwashing effort to stigmatize being reactive has successfully entered the mindset of some. It's pretty obvious too. The definition of change itself has changed. In the past, success was measured in terms of looking at overall production. Nowadays, automakers aren't given credit for replacing their high-volume fleet. Focus is almost entirely on trophy vehicles instead.

It's really unfortunate that adapting to the market as you go isn't considered being innovative and that conclusions are drawn without looking at the big picture.

 

not sure this article is correct? 2014 price reduction boosted october sales? how many '14's were sold? i thought it was the incentive's the last few months, and not just october?

 

Agree, I think there were incentives/dealer's discounts all along, but last month, Toyota made the price reduction official. Volt, Leaf and PIP sold at about 2,000 copies each in October.

 

It is a simple percent of PHV models sold to the number of the hybrid sold. It is within an individual model. To account for the PPI not being nationwide, I only used 60% of the liftback number. This is what Toyota said the 15 states represent in national sales.

Last time I did the math was back in June. Then, the Energi's had a high 13% take rate. The PPI was a low 7%.

How is staying on par with the rest of the year, when they were the sales leaders for most of that time, a poor showing?

The August spike and then September slump nearly every model saw is due to an accounting quirk. Most years Labor day sales are factored into Sept's numbers. This year they went into August numbers.

With the drop in gas prices, we can expect some hybrid's sales to drop when compared to the previous year. The Prius was down 10% from last year in October.
Toyota | October 2013 Sales Chart

If the PPI can catch the Leaf and Volt in total sales by the end of the year, good for it. I've said before that it could beat the Volt in sales on the national level, even before the price drop.

 

Ok, you are comparing PIP with a family of cars(Fusion Energi + C-Max Energi)? They are not to be added for calculation. I know for a fact that they are 2 separate cars.

 

And I thought the lease incentives in September would have made those numbers much higher. The incentives weren't nearly as good in October.

 

No, I looked at the C-max and Fusion seperately. The take rate is a percentage, not a sales total. In June, the C-max and Fusion take rate worked out to be in the 13% for each. So combining their numbers together wouldn't have had much change on the result in that case.

Ford's Oct. numbers aren't out yet, but here are the PHV take rates for Sept. We'll probably see higher take rates until the end of the year due to the federal incentives
Fusion 33%
C-max 53% - if C-max and Fusion numbers were combined, the percentage would be between the two
Prius 22%
Volt 12%/49% - comparing it to the Cruze/Verano

A higher percentage of Ford hybrid buyers are driving off the lot with the PHV than Prius buyers are. Both are blended PHVs, so that can't be a major reason for the PPI's lower take rate and sales. The Fords sell less hybrids in comparison to the Prius. Up until the PPI rebound, the Energi's sales were far closer to the PPI's than they should have been in light of the hybrids' ratio.

It's a bookkeeping quirk due to Labor day happening early in September. Even though they were September days, they were counted for August. That's the main reason the sales numbers spiked up in August, and September's came in lower.

 

Thanks. I saw a post from Dianne at Carson Toyota saying she had until 11/4 to end the month, so that makes sense. They aren't necessarily on the 30 day month we're on.

It also makes more sense as the September numbers were really higher than the report appears to indicate.