Dashboard: Jun-Sep 2013

The only reason Toyota had to adapt to the market is because the problems with the PPI were ones they created. They did a poor job advertizing the PPI and their vision of it as a plug in. Then they went and charged a high premium for it. Which, after federal incentives that Toyota had a hand in writing, left the PPI around the same price as the C-max Energi.

With the price reduction, sales have started to take off. Sales could have taken off from the beginning if they had priced it right then, or just offered it without the feature bloat. Toyota was in the position to underwrite the PPI from the beginning in order to grow market share and penetrate the mainstream. They choose not too. Or is it something they only do when the Japanese government is picking up the tab?

Toyota's adapting to the market isn't considered innovative because it has been reactive and trailing to competitors. RAV4 EV leases only recently passed the federal incentives onto the consumer while some have been doing so from the beginning. It happened after several new EVs with nicer lease deals came to market. The PPI was in a sales slump for nearly a year. Then Nissan and GM announced lower prices for the Leaf and Volt. Two models at the top of the plug in market, and then Toyota announces lower prices for the PPI.

Adapting to the market is good business. Timing it makes you innovative or a follower.

 

So, you sell 1 C-Max hybrid & 1 C-Max Energi = 50% take rate, that is statistically significant, sure ! or add 1 Fusion Energi for 66%, It's not like it's a different vehicle at altogether.

 

Only! Wow! This forum is loaded with other reasons. Haven't you been reading comments owners and those researching purchase have been making? Assumptions, misconceptions, and efforts to undermine are still a problem. Simply reducing price and advertising would not have overcome that.

Of course, we all know that focusing on what could have been is a red-herring.

 

The more widespread the cars are, the more people get to see, test drive, or talk to owners, which result in more sales.
Tesla found that they were selling cars fastest near in areas near Service Centers, rather than near Tesla Stores.

Let me ask you this John, do you know anyone that bought a PiP as a result of you showing them the car? This is a powerful marketing aspect to selling desirable cars. Toyota should be adopting it.

 

Which is why I didn't combine them. My figures are for C-max hybrids to C-max Energis and Fusion hybrids to Fusion Energis. Why keep bringing up combining them? Because I mentioned their numbers back when I first did this were close enough to not have much impact on the final results combined or not?

"They did a poor job advertizing the PPI and their vision of it as a plug in."

Read more: http://priuschat.com/threads/dashboard-jun-sep-2013.132975/page-3#ixzz2jbO7CKK1
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I thought that covered assumptions and misconceptions part. Particularly the part about their vision of what the PPI was. My bad if it didn't. If the public had misconceptions and assumptions concerning the PPI, Toyota didn't do a very good job of informing the public on what the plug's role would be for the car. Relying on the free efforts on your fans alone isn't a guaranty, and appears lazy and disinterested.​

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Yes, there were outside efforts to undermine. The 'blending is bad' one didn't seem to hurt the sales of Ford's PHVs though. The market place will always be filled with competitors and haters. Toyota isn't a struggling start up with limited resources. They are a global company. Letting a product languish can't be solely blamed on outside forces.​

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Perhaps a price reduction wouldn't have helped early on, but the public suddenly getting it isn't what is driving the sales of the past couple of months.​

 

My showing is almost entirely online. So, there are many people who have "seen" mine, which assisted them with the purchase decision. When & Where would I get the opportunity to do that in person? Reach is far greater via the web anyway.

Think about what people actually want to see. What would you be able to show them? Seeing Prius on the road in a variety of different models is far more of an endorsement than a brief encounter in a parking lot.

And shouldn't the goal be to de-emphasize the plug? Ever since the beginning of Prius 15 years ago, Toyota's effort has been to attract middle-market buyers... those who simply want an everyday vehicle not requiring anything special to operate.

Just Drive It.

 

That's the spin. It hasn't been. It still isn't. Don't fall for the greenwashing effort.

 

No John, people seeing the amount of space actually available with their own eyes has much more impact than hearing about it.
Yes, many people research cars online, but seeing it in person almost always plays a bigger role in selling the cars than an online blog or forum.

And most people put more weight in the opinion of an owner over that of a sales rep.

I am actually surprised you don't give test drives, or at least show the car to friends, relatives, coworkers, etc.
You are so enthusiastic, I thought for sure you would be showing it that way.

 

Prius teaches patience. It makes no sense showing off a vehicle extremely difficult to actually purchase. That only results in missed opportunity. It's far more effective waiting until local availability and collecting lots of real-world data in the meantime.

Think about how many more experiences I'll be able to share then too. Overall the past 2 weekends, I've stuff the cargo area with 3 very full loads of trash... hauling it away myself. Telling about that convenience goes a long way. I took 3 long-distance trips carrying bikes on back this summer too. Same situation. I wouldn't of had those stories to share when until recently.

Then there's the reality of how long it takes to build a User-Guide. The photos & advice comes from the wisdom of other owners and observation behind the wheel. None of that can be rushed.

 

patience grasshopper.

 

I agree the PiP isn't all that different from a Prius.
However, that very fact may be a strongpoint. People that are anxious about a car with a plug may be more accepting if they see how 'not scary' it is.

 

That's why I'm slowly building up a collection of videos.

 

This is wrong headed from all the market research.

People that are anxious with plug-ins don't buy them. People that want plug-ins may be put off by features or price. We still are selling to initial adopters. Toyota seems to be getting its pricing and dealers more in line with the car. We can be thankful for that. Toyota's big pr push was this was going to be the affordable plug-in, but when initial prices came out many dealers and customers baulked. Hopefully if they get the pricing better they could sell 30,000 next year in North America and make up for some of the shortfall in Japan.



From the big 4, toyota, GM, Nissan, and Tesla, Toyota won one month, GM 3, Nissan 3, and Tesla 3. Gen IV prius phv, if toyota learns can move from fouth to first, but toyota must learn some lessons.

 

Personally, I agree with you Austin. Just trying to see things from John's point of view while remaining internally consistent.

IMHO, what is going to take electric vehicles beyond the market share of hybrids (~4%) is the appeal of driving electric. Not just to efficiency fans, but for the amazingly smooth ride and driving experience.

EVs don't have the same driving experience as old fashioned cars, theirs is better

 

If you are shooting for 5% of the car market for plug-ins (5%x15M/yr = 750,000/yr) then only cost and range need to be considered. Plenty of homes have 220 in the garage, we don't need to hit appartment dwellers, etc.

But to get to 5% plug-ins (and I am including phevs) some features of the phevs need to improve, and range of bevs need to improve also. Price also needs to come down for range. For price the natural reduction of battery costs is highly possible. For features and range, the car companies need to improve.

Red/Blue is not a divide on plug-in cars, incentives were first created by a red state republican. There are some strong anti-plug-in policitians that are all republians, but the Loudest critics were from Massachusets, Pennsylvania, and California. These were all blue state republicans! Texas which is a red state, is quite pro plug-in. Yes those driving long distances occasionally in texas need a tesla or a phev, but most commutes outside of dallas and houston are easily in range of a car like a volt, and we have 3 tesla superchargers, some NRG superchargers, and a load of L2 chargers in all the cities as well.

I agree this is not all likely to happen in 2 years. But look out 4 (2017), and we can expect at least $30K+ 200+ range bev from gm and tesla, and improved phevs.

At least 15%, which is not bad when you are shooting for 5% of a market The problem is we need to get through the initial adopter phase before most of them will buy. We have passed the initial adopter phase in hybrids, and I anticipate that they will grow faster than the car market as a whole, but gas prices (outside California) are still low for growth, so price premiums need to come down more.

 

What exactly is the spin? My observations are based on the car itself, and how Toyota has handled things with it.

Toyota has always done a poor job of advertizing the Prius. Part of the car's success was due to rising gas prices and concerns over foreign oil. Forces that Toyota had no control over. Perhaps they are doing better by the PPI, but I don't see it not living in one of the launch states.

And thus the frustration we have over Toyota not expanding the availability. You can decry spin and greenwashing all you want, but if the people can't see for themselves, it will fall on deaf ears. We should they show an interest if it will be hard to get?

 

Actually, I was curious about John's statement as it is not difficult to get one in MN if you know it is available. John himself is the reason I found the local dealer that has them available.
If John were to show the PiP to someone, he would also know where to tell them they could get one.