Dashboard: Jun-Sep 2013

Wouldn't Toyota be better off if it didn't try to make it hard to get a Pip in MN or TX? Certainly it would be better for the customers. This state restriction is one reason it looks like Toyota doesn't want to support plug-ins. They need to change this, at least in the next generation, or prepare to lose the plug in market. Toyota's stance on the pip in texas is starting to cascade and hurt non plug-in prii. California is a bigger market, but toyota is unlikely to profit in the long run by snubbing states.

 

I live in one of the original roll-out areas and the PiP is still like a word of mouth thing around here. When I went to the Plug-in day gathering, mine was the only one that showed up and from the comments, many people there didn't know about it.

 

Same old nonsense. It makes no sense at all rolling out to new states as a model year is coming to a close. Yet, facts like that are totally disregarded.

 

Then why set June as the roll out at all, or even go with a limited market to begin with? This isn't a low production BEV being offered to just meet Carb requirements. It's a Prius with a plug and larger battery. The Volt and Leaf didn't have the link to a popular model to help prop them up. Toyota brought the criticism on them selves.

 

110 VAC is perfectly adequate for 30-50 miles of range on an overnight charge. I spent the first 18 months charging my Volt using the 110-120v charge cord. I only switched to 240v when I moved farther away from work because the new garage had an unused electric dryer outlet.

Charging at 240v is a bit more efficient and guarantees that my full charge happens during my utility's cheaper overnight off-peak charging period. Without the dryer outlet I may well have continued charging a full 13 kWh using 110-120v rather than paying an electrician for a new circuit.

Maybe you are right that this is a perception problem but it isn't a real problem.

 

Was talking to austin energy reps this weekend, which is why I brought it up. They would like the prius phv as part of their study of charging habbits. Toyota promised them this summer, then by November. Promises broken, can get poo pooed, but Toyota Last years was supposed to have them in Texas by now. They still have 2013 on their website, but like many things those that wanted them, have gone another way.

I guess your facts never add up to anything bad, but I would say chear leading for the prius phv in states toyota is snubbing is bad form. Most people don't realize what is going on, nor want it, but if its november of 2015, toyota will be very late to the party. On the other hand I am seeing lots of shiny new teslas, leaves, and volts.

 

For October, 2,095 PiPs were sold. I think that makes it the best selling plugin of the month. PiP has not rolled out nation-wide yet.

 

Yes. I posted the chart before, but fords were not in
Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard


There is too much of a gap for it to catch up with the tesla S this year, so prius phv should remain in 4th place, but this months sales were encouraging. Plug in sales are up over 100% from last year ytd.

Toyota's decision to not to sell to many good states for plug-ins like Texas and Florida (both in the top 5 for sales) certainly looks like it has hurt sales and perhaps toyota's image for plug-ins. IMHO it was a bad decission, but John who seems to love his phv thinks its a good one. We certainly can not handicap the prius phv for this, as its part of toyota's marketing strategy. Tesla, despite being a much smaller company, and with the inability to sell cars from texas showrooms, has a show room, a super charger, and a maintenance facility right down the street from me, and will sell and service to all the states except Alaska although I think they would pop a service center up there if they got enough sales.

 

The difficult question (for Toyota) is are they losing PIP sales to Volts/Leafs/Fords or are they losing them to other models of a Prius? There is probably some mix...who knows? The fact that they can adjust the PIP price and/or incentives and bump up the sales significantly tells me that if they can trade PIP sales for regular Prius sales relatively easily. So the real question is what is their difference in margin on each and battery supply, etc.

Mike

 

We think Toyota is losing prius sales to volt, leaf, and cmax-energi. The question is would lowering the price do it, or do they need a redesign. Maybe 1/4 of these sales come from conquests of prius or camry, but prius drivers may simply want a different car.

 

The goal hasn't ever been to party. It has always been to change the norm, to break the status quo. There's a fundamental difference between targeting early adopters and appealing to middle-market. Fortunately, even those who has previously exclaimed "vastly superior" are finally accepting that reality. Selling in high-volume and making a profit doing it, without the assistance of subsidies, is what each automaker is striving for. None have achieved that yet. So, there is no concept of late either.

The rush some insisted upon and careless disregard for consumer needs wasn't anything worthwhile to pursue. Seriously, what was there to lose by waiting? A midyear rollout to new dealers may sound good on paper, but in practice it takes awhile for salespeople to learn about the new vehicle. That takes time. Waiting until the 2014 model arrives instead makes sense.

Step back to look at the big picture. Toyota has been working hard to replace traditional vehicle production with hybrids. That's the point. Expanding to offer a plug will draw in both PHV and more regular Prius sales. We see how many misconceptions and how much pushback there is still. Look at where the other automakers are with respective to replacement. Business is not a party.

 

Why the belief that plug-in sales are mutually exclusive?

Volt is losing sales to Cruze, Malibu, Impala, Equinox, and Sonic.

 

Let me get this straight john. Toyota's goal is sell the highest volume, but they have the 4th highest. They want to be the most profitable, but its likely tesla, ford, and gm are more profitable in plug-ins.

I believe tesla is satisfying customers needs, but what

Customers are really are telling Toyota they want more range, that is according to toyota. They are also telling that to nissan. I guess you think the 2014 my satisfies needs. I don't understand how tesla can have a show room, a repair center, and super chargers in Texas in less than a year, and toyota, well, I don't know if they will make it to texas the 4th highest selling state in 2013, or 2014.

I do know toyota is promising me a fcv. Oh boy. Just what I don't need.

Tell me they are mass market when they win more than a month. Please refrain from telling me why toyota should refuse to sell cars in texas. If its coming next month, let them anounce it. I have heard promises. I think Toyota does't want the prius phv to sell, that is why they won't bring it to texas. Enough of your excuses. That is probably why they put such a small battery in there.

 

Texas and Florida are big states. Places are far apart, not ideal for PiP designed more for city dwellers.

 

You do realize we have 4 of the 20 biggest cities in country, cheap wind electricity at night, purchase a great deal of plug-ins. It really doesn't make much sense not to sell to 2 of the top 5 states unless A) are worried about warranty costs in the heat, and/or B) Aren't serious about selling the cars.

Commutes are much longer in California than Texas. It is a good state for initial adopters. I saw 3 different teslas on the road yesterday, and only drove 15 miles.

No more excuses toyota. If you want to say sales are small because of a limited roll out, you need to blame toyota for the limited roll out. Everyone else seems to be able to the US, and in less time since launch.

 

If you want to talk about 2014 and full production, fine. The looking back and forcing limited perspective isn't accomplishing anything. I'm done following that red herring.

 

Agree. And also the million Prii already sold still make a good choice of buying used, replacing a pollutant and unsafe rolling POjunk...

 

Power-split plugin hybrids are dominating. More bang for the buck.

 

With 3 models vs. 1, they should have always been, but they have only done so for the past 2 months. In the past year you can call a few months being dominated by the Volt. The rest were too close for any dominating, but Volt mostly had the lead.

 

October 2013 Dashboard - HybridCars.com

I would add that the shutdown and low gas prices hurt hybrid sale, but plug-ins continued their strong growth.

I did want to celebrate how well plug-ins are doing, and am glad that toyota is getting their dealers and pricing in line.

I didn't really want to call the 4th best selling plug-in the mainstream sucessful one. You know that, we need some facts. Yes sales are lower than they would be if toyota did a national roll out, but its toyota that has decided not to do that, not any of us. Its not about money, as tesla and ford both much smaller companies were able to do it, even though they had much less cash. I don't really care about your predictions for next year, just stop the mainstream car crap.

I think we would both like to see the next generation prius phv garner a much higher sales rate This does not need to be divisive.