Dashboard: Jun-Sep 2013

For context, here is the Consumer Reports satisfaction survey results sorted for hybrids and EVs -- "Would you buy that car again?"

99 Tesla Model S
91 Chevrolet Volt
84 Toyota Prius
78 Survey MEDIAN
73 Toyota Prius PHV

 

for a company that doesn't care about plug ins, they sure built a nice one for me.

 

No, next Gen!

 

This is from the toyota website
Toyota Prius Plug-in 2013 | Mid-size Hybrid Car

They used to say 2013 for texas in other material, but that is no longer on the official Toyota website. If the prius team is available let us know. This is a thread about sales, not futures, but for those of you that want us to handicap prius sales because of lack of rollout, please talk to Toyota.

 

Thank you.

Good survey for analysis, but I suggest the question is somehow "limited": There should be a set of questions to properly assess consumer satisfaction, or even cross reference odometer accum.miles, or age.

In fact, being 3rd in this survey, Prius shines because it is still holds firm after 13 years.

 

Far too often, want gets interjected into discussion without being identified as such. Detail is indeed helpful.

It doesn't take location into account either. Prius has been a top-seller in Japan for years.

Think about *both* business & consumer. The big picture tells us more. Need is necessity, that on-going making of money for business and the fulfillment of transportation for consumer.

 

Yes, the fact that you want the prius phv to be more mainstream, seems to make you think that people need really small batteries. Please John, stop with the pseudo intellectial drivel. No one "needs" a prius, let alone a prius phv. You wanted one. More people seem to want and be satisfied by the tesla S, volt, and leaf, in the US. We can use volume sales, dollar sales, customer satisfaction surveys, etc. I would like the US to consume less oil, but that is a want.

And here is the bait and switch. We are in a thread about US sales, look at the title. We are commenting on the growth of plug-in sales. Then you switch it not non-plug-ins in Japan. Two switches, without context. Context in Japan is quite a different driving and public transportation landscape, and extremely different tax policy, as well as soft barriers to the Tesla S and volt, 2 of the top 3 best selling plug-ins in the US.

I certainly don't need toyota to make money, but is a sorry excuse. They seem to be pumpling lots of money into their fuel cell vehicle. They spent a lot on their pac to try to get more US taxpayer money to subsidize it even more. They certainly have enough cash to invest to do better, and I hope they do in the future.

 

Being Consumer Reports, I'd assume it was US only. You might get the survey questions with a subscription.

 

Do you believe most people's wants don't influence their car purchases?

 

WANT has a very, very different purchase priority than NEED.

 

Does anyone need a prius phv more than say a used versa? If you are going to go along the line that people need a 4.4kwh battery, but only want a bigger one, you need to explain how 97% of drivers can get by with no hybrid at all

This is about satisfying the market and expanding it, not dictating 4.4 is better than 7.

 

Sigh (rolling eyes)
.

 

Are you surprised?

Toyota unveils new hydrogen fuel-cell car

A national roll out of the prius phv, might walk all over toyota's marketing that plug-ins are a failure. I mean they have enough trouble explaining how no one wants plug-ins with every month of data.

 

To my ears, this "WANT" vs "NEED" dialectical has an echo of "socialist economy" to it. Dear Toyota will determine our needs and produce a people's mainstream car for worker and bourgeois alike.

No! No! Down! Down!, to the dangers of the market where individuals actually determine which among multiple competing cars best satisfies their own requirements. The Central Committee knows that the Prius will go before, and after!

Prius forever!!!

Okay, maybe not. I think I took that too far.

 

At first I thought John was simply predicting that the prius phv would satisfy the market better than the leaf or volt. That he was thinking that a better ev experience was all made up, and toyota would beat everyone. Until the numbers came in we could just speculate differently.

Now that customer satisfaction surveys, and market research are in, it is untenable to stand by the prediction. I would prefer, I think toyota will do better on the next generation, and I personally hope it does. Unfortunately the want need stuff really smacks of something else.

In music we see some of the worst stuff win awards and sell the most albums. There are consumer sheep out there. I can understand the gen I prius is better, people just don't understand it. Just wait until it catches on. Great reasoning. Unfortunately this want need stuff is about a race to the bottom. It goes to consumers really need 50 mpg and 5 seats and refueling everywhere. That seems to disqualify the leaf, volt, and tesla S, even though all three have greater potential than the prius phv. The phv needs to move in the direction of better handling, more acceleration, and more range. Its not about lower msrp cost before tax credits. This want need bs would have predicted the death of the prius. It is subsersive, not communist. It is an elite knows better than the initial adopters. Its henry ford's "it can be any color as long as its black", and if someone at ford wasn't a yes man other than his son, they were fired. Edsel eventually convinced Henry that yes, you should allow people to have choices.

 

That is the identical response Two-Mode supporters gave when the very same topic was brought up years ago... and we know how that turned out.

 

Yes, it turns out that few customers wanted top-of-the-line large crew-cab pickup trucks with hybridized V8 engines.

I'm doubting that whatever truck hybrid transaxle that Toyota and Ford individually come out with will be significantly cheaper to manufacture or inherently higher efficiency than the Two-Mode truck-oriented transaxle.

I think Toyota has a chance to create an adequate market because of their general hybrid reputation and because they will probably use a better chosen and adapted V6 engine and will offer it in a regular cab trim.

I haven't seen any compelling technical reason for the failure of Two-Mode transaxles in truck sales. I view it as a bad marketing decision at GM to try selling "performance-oriented" hybrid powertrains to American large truck owners. Wrong market, and an ill-advised failure to primarily focus on maximizing mpgs.

 

Could you find an example of that?
I thought the problem with two mode was it simply was too expensive. People had to upgrade to more expensive trucks with features they didn't want to get it.

I have no idea how two-mode entered the conversation though.

Ford has gotten a lot of market share for ecoboost, for a more expensive and torquey turbo 6 instead of an 8. Two things are sure in the truck market - 1) People want torque, and 2) people want to use less gas but not by giving up power in their trucks.

BMW who was a partner on two mode found the system in the activehybrid5 much less expensive to manufacture. Thinking outside the box, or maybe in it, we can see such a system as part of a 4wd truck system. Add even a bigger battery for more torque, and a motor on the front axle, and you have a system, that may cost about $6K more than a 4wd system in a truck, but boosts city efficiency and increases power at the same time. To increase highway efficiency you need a more efficient engine, a problem with the activehybrid and 2-mode systems is they used the same ice. Perhaps have a 4 cylinder turbo option, give it an eco button that cuts off the inefficient range of the turbo, and a tow button that tunes the eAWD system for towing. It will take time but someone will create a better hybrid truck.

 

Sounds familiar.

 

History of hybrids and plug-ins started from only one car. Guess you "democraticly" try to avoid that reference.