Upscale Prii an endangered species ?

Deisel will always be dirty. I was following a late model BMW recently and it was blowing clouds of smoke every time it accelerated. Petrol is dirty too but not with asbestos like micro particles. Growing plants for fuel only displaces the natural environment (e.g. like palm oil or corn), or food production.

 

Since volume is not a characteristic that greatly affects the mileage achieved by a given car, using it as the basis for optimization seems misguided. Mass on the other hand directly affects mileage. If you compute mileage in terms of miles per pound of fuel, you will more easily see an optimal configuration (based on the car only).

Gasoline: 114,000 BTUs per gallon, 6.073 lbs / gallon -> 18,771 BTUs / lb.
Diesel: 128,700 per gallon, 6.943 lbs / gallon -> 18,536 BTUs / lb.

So gasoline has a higher energy density (by mass).

So if we have two cars which both get 50 miles per gallon, one diesel, one gasoline; the gas car will get 8.2 miles per pound, and the diesel will get 7.2 miles per pound. We could also compare them based on energy (which would again favor the gasoline car).

 

Actually, most of the particles emitted by petrol engines are in the extremely small size category - nanoparticles - typically defined as <50 nanometers in diameter. For that reason, emissions from petrol are typically not visible.

Filters (DPF) are especially effective in removing nanoparticles in diesel engines...




Source: John Storey et al., ORNL, "Comparison of Direct Exposure of Human Lung Cells to Modern Engine Exhaust Particles." http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2003/session9/2003_deer_storey.pdf

 

Using miles per pound seems misguided to me. What the consumer is concerned with is $/mile. Since this is a widely fluctuating figure that varies from region to region, MPG or L/100KM is the most relevant figure.

You have a point that diesel has less energy per pound than gasoline, but the combustion process of diesel is more efficient at extracting usable power than gasoline. Diesels get roughly 30% more MPG than an equivalent gasoline vehicle. Since diesel has 15% more energy, that must mean the other 15% of the improved economy comes from the efficiency of the combustion process.

 

don't get me wrong, honda makes a great car most of the time.

 

So, what is your reason? WHY is mass misguided, but volume not?

 

I have yet to see a station that posted price by the pound.

 

That just tells you what is traditional, not what is BEST.

 

In that case,I could make a good argument that fuel should be sold by mole. I won't, but I could.

 

A Prius five with ATP ($35,135) and a Accord hybrid touring ($34,905) are similarly equipped . The advantages with the HAH are; A sunroof (not avaliable on five trim), lane watch, Real leather, dual zone climate control, more interior volume, more horsepower & torque, and higher quality interior materials. The advantages with the Prius are; A heads up display, advanced parking guidance system, more cargo volume/flexibility, 3 more MPG combined. I have not driven an Accord hybrid but from the reviews I have read, it seems like a more comfortable ride. I have a 2010 V with ATP and I can tell you it does not feel like a $35,000 car at all. A very harsh, loud ride with lots of hard plastic in the interior. I sat in the HAH at the LA auto show and the interior is way nicer! If you are looking for a high trim hybrid and you don't need the extra cargo space, I think the Accord is the way to go.

 

trust me, under the same conditions, the pri will get way more than 3 mpg difference.

 

There was no 2010 Prius V, or v.

I do agree the trim levels in the Honda are far nicer. Yes, the V is a bit harsh. I'm thinking of moving to flatter terrain.

I would think an average Prius HB would get 5 mpg or more than the HAH, but the V will likely not.

 

didn't read the V in his post, that's true. the liftback will be 10 mpg better or more. and if people who purchased a V wanted a more luxurious sedan, they would have purchased a hycam.

 

In 2010, there was a V, IV, III, II in the Gen 3 Prius. They've since dropped those roman numerals in favor of numbers.

 

okay, i'm officially confused.

 

Ah Yes, I forgot about that nonsense. True dat.

 

You have taken a single sentence from my post out of context and lost the thrust of both of our arguments. It is implied from your post that diesel engines are not superior to gasoline engines and you mislead people by pointing out the fact that gasoline has a higher energy content per weight than diesel.

I conceded that diesel engines do partially owe their superior MPG figures to their higher energy per volume, but that it's only half the story. The other half of the improved MPG is due to the more efficient design of diesel engines. Their efficiency comes about by having lower pumping losses, increased thermal efficiency, lower RPM, etc.

The fact that diesel is more efficient is undisputed. In every sector where efficient movement of goods is concerned, you will find a diesel engine. From cargo ships, to trains, to semi trucks, they all rely on the efficiency of diesel. The weight per energy advantage that gasoline has does not offset the relatively poor thermal efficiency of the engine.

I believe you intended to misguide people with your tangent thought about measuring energy by weight, for reasons unknown to me. If you want to discredit diesel as a reasonable fuel choice for passenger vehicles, you can criticize the pollution, or the noise, or the scarce fueling locations, or the smell... but you cannot condemn it as inefficient.

 

On the contrary, it was the only part I was interested in. Everyone can see your entire post just by scrolling.

You seem to have inferred a huge argument against diesels, where I only wrote that mileage by mass was more informative than mileage by volume. If you have an ACTUAL argument about whether volume or mass is better used in calculating mileage, please make it, otherwise, there is no need to make bald assertions that you don't seem to want to defend, just because you perceive weather we use mass vs volume as an attack on your precious diesels.

 

I agree, and for residents of New York leasing the Accord Plug-in is a bargain.

2014 Accord Plug-In CVT PHEV Featured Special Lease
Offer valid from 11/5/2013 through 1/6/2014

$269.00 per month for 36 months. $3,299.00 total due at signing. Offer only available to residents of New York.

Includes down payments with no security deposit. Excludes taxes, titles and dealer fees. For well qualified lessees.

 

I concur, You are officially confused.