Start-Stop study claims soon to be universal

Mazda's iEloop system uses an ultra cap to buffer the incoming regen brake charge. It isn't part of their start/stop system. That uses precise mapping of cylinder position to fire the engine up with a squirt of fuel and spark. The starter might still help, but the load on it, and thus battery, is greatly reduced.

The article got one thing wrong. Theses start/stop systems were available overseas before hybrids.

 

Just think how much start/stop will be liked when people discover the A/C shuts off too.

 

Start/Stop: Making the Most of Just Hanging Around - Road & Track

 

There seems to be a suggestion here that it would go the other way - A/C demand would defeat the engine stop:

Stop-Start Technology | Motoring | RACQ

Funnily enough that article is from the motoring organisation for Queensland, Australia, a state where vehicle a/c will be on much of the time.

 

what about the wear and tear from this sytem on the starter motor the ice itself ( maybe not because the ice is hot when it works ) and the 12 volt starter battery that needs to be replaced sooner ? ( or not? ) will that not offset any fuel savings also environmental because of parts that needs to be replaced and so the cost of resources.

 

Back in the 50's my grandfather had a car (??MG Magnet??) which had a clutch which was iron powder between two plates. Unmagnetised the clutch slipped and magnetised the powder clumped and 'joined' the two plates.

Also and more relevant here, the flywheel had coils in which acted as the dynamo and also when energised acted as the starter.

The car was nothing but trouble and was recalled (I was very young so it is all a bit hazy) and replaced after a few months. Perhaps it was an experiment by the car company he had agreed to try. He was very much an innovator, made transmitting and receiving radios before there was an amateur licensing system, (he later got the second "Artificial Aerial License") and drove before tests and licences were required.

 

The path eventually leads to an electric A/C, likely coupled to regenerative braking, then a mild hybrid system.

The extra wear on the ICE will be minimal since it is warmed up. I think Wayne Gerdes had to replace the starter on his Accord after 3 years, but he 'auto stops' more often than these systems will. They will also likely have a heavy duty starter.

The battery is going to be the weak link. Which I think R&D is already addressing. I could be wrong, but this is a target application for capacitor/lead acid battery hybrids.

Can't speak for the cost savings, but the environmental cost fore recycling a battery will be less than burning the gas that was saved.

 

Honda used a small electric A/C to keep cool air blowing.
The car companies don't care if the start/stop motor wastes copper or shortens engine life. The government has setup a system that incentivizes companies to do *whatever* it takes to boost City MPG as high as possible, in order to meet the new 55 average fuel economy.

 

If you come up with an idea, you need to have a catchy marketing phrase to go along with it. Ultra-cap technology has a ring to it but two-stage planetary gear doesn't sound like it has much advertising appeal.

My idea to meet fuel economy numbers is to put an undersized engine in a car an then boost the horsepower when needed with turbo power. Haven't thought of a catchy marketing name yet. Along the lines of Eco-something sounds right but it just doesn't come to me.

It's funny how the automotive marking types are avoiding the word "hybrid" at all costs. I always called ultra caps hybrid caps. I'll be interesting to see how many marketing terms will be introduced trying to avoid calling shutting the engine off as micro-hybrid. I've heard people say they would never own a hybrid. I guess they will be alright with it being called another name.

 

Bob this is simply a complication to put different gearing for cold versus normal weather. They simply need a beefy enough starter for conditions, and a heavier duty battery. These systems use AGM aka advanced lead acid batteries.

I am not sure why you would use aluminum instead of copper. Aluminum needs more turns for the same coil strength. If it was better Iwould think we would see aluminum coils in the more powerful mgs in the prius.

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  The gm malibu eco uses a more power full system where the motor can assist. I would think anything more powerful would simply go the way of the ima system, as it would not be much cheaper to manufacture.

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  The mazda i-eloop does use a supper cap, I do not think it gets much better milage than the regular mazdas. Perhaps 1 mpg

In order for such a solar cell to work the car would have to be outside and not covered in snow Most solar schemes simply don't work.

Start-Stop Technology | Johnson Controls Inc.

Electric AC is more efficient, but for most start stop systems, don't have the battery for it. If the ac is needed, or heat and the ice isn't hot, the engine simply will not stop.

Yep.

AGM and they are simply more expensive. JCI is also making a hybrid battery, for mild hybrids that has a lithium ion battery and a lead acid battery.

The biggest hurdle is the epa test does not benefit start stop systems.
Engine Stop-Start Systems Explained - Tech. Dept. - Car and Driver

 

The Mazda6 with iEloop package, which also includes active grill shutters, is rated 2 mpg over the base automatic in both city and highway.

Which is why the legislation that raised the CAFE target also includes credits for installed start/stop systems.

Some reports from markets where these systems have been available state that the systems kill the battery faster, or the battery is just weakened to the point where the system can't operate. If that proves to be the case, then 'larger' batteries may be called for. Which may make electric AC an option.

 

Just think of the first time you are sitting in your Prius at a major intersection in lots of traffic and not a car around you is making any engine noise. That will be shocking.

 

If it costs $500 more there's no way it will save enough gas to pay for itself. I'm having this same debate with myself over Ford's three cylinder engine. Base I4 car is 14,000 and base I3 is 16,500. The MPG difference is not enough gas savings to cover that spread.

 

Ford charges $295 today, and I'm sure that prices will drop even more if they increase volume.

Ford Prices 2013 Fusion’s Stop-Start System at $295, Keeps Rest of the Car’s Price a Secret | Car and Driver Blog

Replacement 12V batteries will be more expensive, although I'm thinking less than the one in the prius. It doesn't need to save gas. I consider the prius turning off at the light a luxury feature. I doubt the upgrade or is it downgrade from 4 cyclinder to turbo 3 is going to save much gas except on the test Many people with low powered turbos end up pushing it, and pushing a 3 cylinder turbo goes to the least efficient range. If you keep the power down it will be more efficient but what fun is that.

 

When I defeat stop/start in my insight I see no change in MPG.

Zero. But let's assume 0.1 increased Mpg per day, so the Fusion would get 35.1 instead of 35. That's only $28 saved over 100,000..... the additional cost doesn't pay for itself.

 

Huh?

 

Those that want fun are going to buy the Fiesta ST with the 1.6 Ecoboost.

 

But how long are your lights, and how many? I've seen noticable improvement when FASing my cars on my daily commute. The gains are also going to be bigger with the bigger an engine. The Insight's 3cyl already has a very low idle fuel rate.