The ELR Is On It's Way...

It is not you. Caddys of the past, (excluding the '59 convertible) were more of a miss than a hit. GM apparently did not learn enough from the Vega, let alone the Corvair.

The ELR will save Caddy? - no way!

DBCassidy

 

Thank you, but I can't agree, making this approach:

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV

Mitsubishi’s Extended Range Outlander PHEV Now On Sale In Europe (video)

Pure EV (RE) - 52km
Combined NEDC (CW) - 1.9l/100km


Combined and weighted | Opel Ampera Blog

Volt/Ampera: Pure EV (RE) - 83km
Combined NEDC (CW) - 1.2l/100km


Knowing that
CW = RE*CA/(RE+25km) + 25km*CB/(25km+RE)

Assuming CA is zero for both cases (battery only) we get

Volt CB - 5.18l/100km (45MPG)
Outlander CB - 5.85l/100km (40.1MPG)

Please note Outlander holds a 120hp 2.0litre engine, and is a AWD SUV.

There is no way Volt can be considered soft on gas...

 

With the ICE of the Volt/Ampera/ELR there is room for improvement in regards to fuel economy. It was initially chosen to get the car out the door in time, and tuned so some people wouldn't complain about the noise. That doesn't make it a poor choice for overall efficiency. Ultimately, the amount of fuel PHVs save all comes down to usage pattern of the driver.

Yes, a PHV can be driven in CD mode alone. Few actually do without any intention of never charging. Most of that small group in the US are doing so just to get HOV access. They don't care about fuel economy. If they did, they'd have gotten a Prius PHV. Compared to their previous car, and what they would have selected instead, the Volt is more than likely an improvement in economy even with the poor ICE.

Forgive me if I missed it, but it appears you never answered what the distance of your daily drive was when you brought up your personal experience with the Carina. Is it greater than 15 miles? Than 32, or 51? Going by NEDC, the Volt gets 51 miles of EV range. How much gas would you use with the Volt for a day, a week, a month, a year?

51 miles too much. The Outlander PHV goes 32 miles on EV. If that meets your daily needs, great. It will haul more people and things. There is the cost in fuel beyond that EV range for that. It is getting 4.9 mpg less than the Volt off the grid. So the more gas used the further away from an outlet it goes.

The Prius already meets your needs, so why not the PPI? 15 miles is my guess for NEDC EV range. How much less gas will you use with the grid. Even if you don't plug in, it is good as a Prius at least.

That is your point right? That as long as a PHV gets worse ICE fuel economy than a Prius it is a FSP regardless of what its electric system can do to reduce fuel use for an individual.

 

PHV delivers better depleted efficiency than the regular model.

 

I know. I said,"...it is good as a Prius at least," because the discussion was with NEDC numbers, and didn't have them. What are they for the PPI?

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Not that it matters much, but the 51-52 miles of Ampera/Volt NEDC range is for the 2011 model year. For 2013-2014 it is probably 55-56 but I haven't seen an official number. I assume the NEDC gas-only rating of 5.0l per 100km or about 46 mpg US hasn't changed since the EPA rating didn't.

 

Perhaps the outlander is also soft on gas for a AWD crossover. It appears to be quite popular in japan, and I hope they export it to the US soon. I find the NEDC milage estimates very hopeful when it comes to both range and charged sustain (I believe that may be your CB). I doubt many in america can hit those numbers, can many in europe?

I don't doubt that the volt would do better in charge sustain with a lighter body, a more efficient ice, and better software. If that is your point I agree. But really it will use very low number of liters of gasoline per year when driven in the pattern most europeans drive. The price, features, and indeed the company that stands behind it mean it will not sell well compared to say a ford focus or vw gulf in europe, but it will use a lot less gas than even a prius.

 

I drive about 5k miles a year with this car (daily not more than 30 miles).
By the date it ends, definitely, I would choose a used Prius or a electric car. Driving around with a dorment ICE simply blows my view of a good car choice.

Yes, probably my "today's Prius" will replace this Carina someday, and I'll get a PPI (hopefully a Prius v PHEV) for the daily drive (my wife and family trips).

If not aiming at the best, a car designer seems a lost ship sailor. Engineers have to do that!

A PHV is supposed to turn the ICE every now and then. If not, its ICE should never be there under the hood

Yes, I've seen many Prius owners make several tanks below NEDC (which I believe is 3.8l/100km - 62MPG).
In "normal" driving - cabin heating, "wife driving", small commuting, it goes up to 5.1l/100km which is the average of 1350 users in Spritmonitor.

Thank you AG, you've seen my point. MPG is always related to CS consumption, as we can easily fill the expressions of NEDC CW and find a "Prius PPI" with 55km EV range matching Volt CW...that means PPI would have only two thirds of the Voltec battery - less weight, less cost, more room!

 

You have an advantage over most of us in NA. The 40 mile EV range target for the Volt was chosen with the US in mind. My daily commute is just over 60miles. A Volt would save me a lot of fuel, but be overkill for you.

If a BEV will work for you, then go for it. Otherwise a wide selection of hybrids and PHV will benefit the rest until the BEVs work for them.

For the Volt owners that have posted here, it seems the ICE turns often enough. Others just went to Tesla.

Supposedly, the Volt engineers were able to get the ICE up to 50mpg. The resulting noise and vibration were deemed unacceptable for most drivers. Audi ran into the same issue with their A1 E-tron project. Being a serial hybrid, they could run the rotary at one set rpm for optimal efficiency. Test drivers found the constant hum unconnected to vehicle speed annoying and distracting. So the designers gave the engine 3 set speeds to make driving the car more enjoyable.

While some Volt owners would like a noisy ECO mode option, it being the default would mean less sales. Fuel economy is just one of many criteria in selecting a car. If a PHV can meet more of my daily miles in EV than another model, then its ICE efficiency becomes less of a priority.

The current Volt came out in 2011. It wasn't the most fuel efficient hybrid in CS mode, but it was far from the worse. Until the arrival of the Prius c, the liftback's fuel economy was an outlier. There were 4 hybrid cars getting 21mpg combined or less that year to its one getting 50mpg. The reasonable hybrid cars were in the 42 to 33mpg range. Putting the Volt's 37mpg combined in the middle. None of the others could supplement gas with electricity though.

Since then, redesigns and new models have put the Volt's rating farther down. But the Volt is do for redesign soon, and its designers should be free of the constraints that lead to the current ones ICE.

 

Competition forces the Volt redesign, if not, then like many past GM products - they wither and die.

DBCassidy

 

Even without competition, a redesign would happen anyway. It might be at 6 years instead of 5, but it be worth it just for cost reductions.

 

True Cost of Ownership | Tesla Motors

or ... For about the same cost ... you get a Tesla with a guaranteed. best resale ... decisions decisions

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lol.

Some prefer a cadilac, more perfer a tesla. The thing is it really doesn't cost gm much to roll out this cadilac, compared to advertising dollars. If having it available increase plug-in sales and awareness, its a good thing.

 

There's a big difference between system refinement (generation upgrades) and system redesign (approach change).

 

Video review of 2014 Cadillac

 

+1

They need to find a new narrator.
I'm sure it will outsell the Lexus GSh &LSh, BMW activehybrid 5 and 7 (522, 115, 520, 31 respecively in 2013). In many ways its a better green halo for Cadilac. It won't touch the Tesla S, but for a old line luxury maker its the most we can expect. The next generation they will have time to turbo charge that ice, and put anouther 50 kw in the battery pack to make it a performance luxury phev.

 

You are way ahead of me, I got 2 cents.

DBCassidy

 

2014 Cadillac ELR Review - Video - HybridCars.com