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ICE vs EV - Driving around 35 mph

Discussion in 'Prius c Fuel Economy' started by Farfle, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. Farfle

    Farfle Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2012
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    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    So I've owned the car for over a year now, and I've experimented with various city driving techniques, but am still unsure what the best method is.

    When I first got the car in December 2012, I was accelerating very slowly from dead stops, staying in EV-only mode, and also maintaining my speeds in EV-only mode as much as possible. While this gave me extremely terrible acceleration rates, it did result in quite smooth driving when up to speed, and also seemed to return really good MPG. But it also left me at the end of trips often with a low battery state-of-charge. I was ok with this, knowing when I came back to start the car, the ICE had to run anyways and it would recharge the battery at least a little.

    Then I read some advice from GenIII owners saying that using EV mode at all is wasteful and overall more ineffecient due to Gas->Electric conversion. I was better off using the battery as little as possible.

    So then I changed my method to accelerating in ICE mode from dead stops (this often lead to fairly brisk accelerations relative to traffic around me), then doing little-to-zero-usage EV glides, and repeating this process. This had the benefit of nearly always keeping my battery state of charge at it's optimum 6 pips and thus returning "real" MPG after each trip, but also led to annoying changes in speed that had to be carefully managed when around other vehicles.

    It becomes particularly ambiguous what the correct method is when i'm driving around 35mph. The slowest speed I can pretty much maintain while in ICE-only mode is 40mph. Any slower, and the car wants to turn off the ICE and switch to EV mode. At 35mph, though, that uses a lot of battery to maintain, so I usually either try to go 40mph or pulse and glide in the 30-40 mph range.

    Using both methods, in the city, I've never really been able to get more than 63 MPG at the best of times. In the winter, it's often down in the mid-50s. I guess my question is there a general consensus to the best way to drive this in the City? Should I follow the Gen III owners advice and try to use as little EV as possible, or is this car a bit different and EV usage is not as wasteful? Is driving in ICE mode at 40mph better than driving at 35 MPH in EV?

    Thanks
     
  2. hieronymous

    hieronymous Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A

    I'm in a similar position regarding ownership and city driving, and I continue to experiment as you have. I'm steadily coming to the conclusion that, as in driving any ICE-only vehicle, steady driving with a light foot is the best way to go. For our conditions (30 mph limit mostly) this results in running down EV with SoC dropping to 40%, then ICE to 45%, and repeat. I throw in some pulse-and-glide but I don't fixate on it.
    It's summer here, about 75F in the afternoons. A city route I have taken a couple of times since Christmas is about optimum - 20-25 miles, half flat, one long shallow hill, then gentle rolling; very little elevation change. Weather was fine, road smooth and dry, very light traffic, tires/tyres at +8psi. I'm into anticipation and avoiding loss of momentum.
    For both these trips (no stops apart from a couple of reds, from home back to home), I got 84mpg indicated, my best yet.
    Other routes, varying traffic, more stopping, means more gas, but over the summer on these roads I haven't done worse than 67mpg. If I add some city highway (motorway) into the mix ( I sit on 50-55) I still do no worse than 62. On the highway I use cruise if the traffic is light.
    This might sound like Aunt Daisy driving, but cars are smaller here and speed limits slower (national limit 62 and enforced). In 30mph limits I just drive with the traffic. On the highway there are lots of faster drivers, but others as slow or slower, and I've only had a couple of tail-gaters in 16 months ownership, who shifted when I slowed on them. My C is an ideal car in these conditions.

    So, for what its worth, I vote for letting the car do its thing, even if that is lots of EV driving.
     
  3. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
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    Best way fo save fuel: keep EV to glide or very low demand.
    To accelerate, use ICE (step harder on gas).
    I believe the operating manual refers that.
     
  4. Fred_H

    Fred_H Misoversimplifier

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
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    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    The expert hypermilers use both strategies, and also other techniques. Depending on terrain, traffic, and weather, they alternate from one strategy to another and use combinations and variations of techniques.

    The art of hypermiling is in recognizing the optimum techniques for the situation, and anticipating the upcoming situation, and setting up speed, SOC, and traffic position to best take advantage of it.

    I don't do extreme hypermiling, but I do keep in mind that the car reacts mostly to what has happened in the past, and it is up to me to anticipate upcoming situations. Generally I just do simple basic things like saving or using up SOC for upcoming situations, and sometimes coaxing or forcing EV mode or ICE startup if the car doesn't recognize the situation by itself.

    So the answer to your question is to alternate between ICE and EV. This is what your car wants to do because it knows the most efficient mode. Don't fight what the car wants to do. Work with the car to help it do what it wants to do.

    What your car is trying to do, is to use the ICE when higher power is required, and to use EV when lower power is required. At higher power levels, the ICE is more efficient, and the battery can be charged more efficiently to provide more EV range for when lower power is required. At lower power levels, EV is more efficient.

    (Most efficient of all is the powerless glide, which should used at every good oportunity, but only when it can be done without hindering, endangering or provoking anybody.)

    You can help your car to do what it wants by anticipating future EV conditions, and allowing or coaxing the ICE to run and charge the battery under conditions that require higher power, such as slight uphill grades and when accelerating, so that it has plenty of SOC for when it wants to EV in the lower power requirement situations.

    Or, in anticipation of a good charging opportunity, you can help your car stay in EV as long as it wants, by not doing anything to provoke an ICE start.

    Most of the time, the Prius does a pretty good job of recognizing conditions and choosing the optimum mode at the right time. But since it is blind to the future, sometimes it can get out of sync. For example, once in a while it will choose to EV up a hill, run out of SOC at the top, and start the ICE to charge the battery while almost coasting down the other side. If you are in tune with what your car wants, then you can help it optimize its timing and decision making.
     
    telmo744 likes this.
  5. Raidin

    Raidin Active Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
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    Driving at 35ish or less for pure EV mode can really help your MPG, but only if you never get to where the ICE has to charge the battery while you're driving that slow.

    This means that short jaunts at EV speeds will help you a lot, as long as you can recharge your battery back up with regenerative braking or through the ICE at highway speeds.

    I have had trips where my time at 35 MPH was very short, and it always boosted my MPG. There were other trips where I spent more time at 35 MPH and then my ICE would turn on no matter how slow I was going and drop me to very low MPGs which lowered my average significantly.

    The bottom line: Using EV only speeds are the best option as long as you keep them to a minimum and not drain your battery in the process, otherwise, stick to low usage of ICE and let the battery assist the ICE when it's at its most inefficient.
     
  6. Farfle

    Farfle Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2012
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    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    So I did some driving a few days ago in city where speed limit was between 30-40mph for around 15 miles with stop lights. It was late at night so I got pretty lucky with the green lights, so I didn't have to stop much.

    It was in the lower 40s temp wise, and using just the ICE I got 68mpg on my display. If I accelerate to around 42 then lightly let up the pedal I can manage to get the HSI guage down past the left to the center line (almost half way past center line) before the car shuts off the ICE and goes to EV. At this point, right before the engine shuts off Im getting nearly 75mpg and can confirm no battery usage according to energy monitor.

    At this throttle amount of throttle, the car would slow down very slowly to around 35 mph and stay there. This seems like a good technique and te best part is it uses no battery