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quadruple hit to MPG

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by mcfarlandandrew, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. mcfarlandandrew

    mcfarlandandrew New Member

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    Just back from 800 mile round trip between SLC and Boise with some awful MPG's and would like feedback as to whether or not I may have something wrong or am just suffering an exponential decrease based on the perfect storm of factors. I have found plenty of posts regarding any one of these factors but not all of them combined so do not know if my low MPG should've been expected. Barely avg'd 28mpg based on computer, BUT:

    1. roof ski rack with skis (scissor type, not box)
    2. cold temps (30-35F)
    3. snow tires (15" toyo observes studless at 42/40psi)
    4. driving speed limit of 75-80mph

    Thanks for any feedback. Here's the rest of the story:


    - Have you read Yet? YES

    - What fuel economy are you getting and how are you determining fuel economy? (trip computer or manual calculations) 28MPG trip computer

    - What fuel economy are you expecting and why? 35-40 based on other posts

    - What are the approximate outside air temps? 30-35F

    - How long are your trips? This trip was about 800 miles, including 50 miles of running around SLC

    - How much of it is city vs. highway? Roughly what's the average speed in overall and and of each segment? Is there a lot of stop and go driving? 750 miles of 75-80mph

    - What region/state are you in? (if you haven't set your location in your profile) Idaho/Utah

    - What's the terrain like of your drives? (e.g. flat, gentle hills, steep hills, etc.) long gradual hills and flats

    - Is your oil overfilled? (i.e. above the full mark on the dipstick) No

    How old is your 12v battery? What is the voltage reading of your 12v battery after sitting over night? 12.2

    Have you had your alignment checked? Any pulling or abnormal tire wear? No, No

    - Are you using the factory tires and wheels? If not, please indicate tire make, model and size (e.g. Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max 185/65R15). Toyo 15" studless snow tires

    - What are your tire pressures? 42/40

    - Make, model, year, engine and transmission of previous car? (e.g. 08 Honda Civic Si 2.0L 4 cylinder, manual transmission) What did you actually get on the same trips/commute? (Please give us actual numbers, not EPA ratings.) 2001 Subaru outback, never calculated

    - How are you trying to drive (e.g. trying to stay in electric only?) and how hard are you braking? CC as much as possible, conservatively while maintaining speed limit

    - Are you "warming up" the ICE (internal combustion engine) by letting it idle after powering on? no

    - Are you driving using D or B mode? D

    - HVAC settings? Are you using the heater, AC, auto mode, etc.? If using auto, what temp is it set to? Heater on Low, 68F

    - If reporting a mileage drop, did anything significant change on your car (e.g. accident, hit a curb or big pothole throwing off alignment, oil change/other maintenance/repairs, changed tires or wheels, etc.) or your commute? Long drive, previously only around town with 43mpg avg (winter)
     
  2. css28

    css28 Senior Member

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    I'd say the combination of your speed and the roof rack. Just 5 - 10 mph off you your speed would have made a world of difference.
     
    PriusGuy32 likes this.
  3. mcfarlandandrew

    mcfarlandandrew New Member

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    Yeah, I tried dropping to 65 for 5-10 minutes a few different times and was still only hitting 30-31mpg. Granted, it was a much smaller sample than my 75-80 time but I decided traveling slower than traffic wasn't worth the 2-3mpg at that point.
     
  4. vskid3

    vskid3 Active Member

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    28MPG might not be that bad, considering the conditions. A month ago I had a tank average 39MPG (43.4 on the MFD) doing 75-77mph with the cruise, many hills, and similar temperature. To my advantage, I had decent LRR tires at 51PSI and no roof rack. I think its possible for the snow tires and rack to take off that much mileage, especially with how hard you're pushing the car just doing 75.
     
  5. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I still love it.
    As long as I've followed Hybrids, Prius and Prius Chat, I've seen so many posts like this.

    Personally? I love owning a vehicle that can have almost every possible strike against it as far as getting good gas mileage but still get an "awful" 28 mpg.

    How quickly we forget that for almost every other vehicle on the market a 28 mpg average under "ideal" circumstance would be considered great.

    Of course I watch my MPG, just like the majority of all Prius owners. But I try not to react to either one situation that creates momentarily astronomically great gas mileage, nor do I react to situations that are currently hampering my gas mileage. Ski racks, cold temps, fast speed, snow tires...all are applied situations that will lower your MPG and would with any vehicle.

    If you remove or mother nature removes, some of those mileage killing scenarios, temps warm up, ski rack removed, snow tires removed, slower speeds embraced and your awful mileage doesn't improve? Then I'd worry. Given all the negatives applied to that trip? My guess would be your Prius was doing the best job it could.
     
  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Your Prius did far better than my 1997 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon (i.e. Outback clone) ever did on that road with a roof ski rack. And I never traveled above 70. While that car later produced low-to-mid 30 mpgs on other roads, it needed warm weather, lower speeds, and no roof rack, even the factory crossbars were removed.

    Did you encounter significant winds there, as I have multiple times? In a Prius, a cross wind can be worse than a head wind. On almost this entire route, except maybe the portion from Twin Falls to Burley, the wind is almost guaranteed to be cross wind.

    I hope to be driving that road again this winter, though in a '14 Forester, stick shift. So far, with no roof rack (skis inside), speeds below 65, and grill blocking, it is holding a smidge above 30 mpg. If you can put the skis inside your Prius (today's shorter skis easily fit inside mine), it will help greatly.
     
  7. mcfarlandandrew

    mcfarlandandrew New Member

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    Yes to the crosswind. Even on the big descents it felt like the car was fighting to maintain speed. I wish I had calculated the same trip for my Sub before it was totaled. It "seemed" to get about 20 in the winter with snow tires and a box on the highway, but that of course is based on much less data than the Prius provides. Which, Electric Me, I'm sure contributes to the omnipresent "why is my mpg so bad" posts - most of us simply don't know just how bad our other vehicles mileage is/was. At least not with the immediacy and thoroughness provided by the Prius.

    Thanks for the input.
     
  8. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    At some point maybe you could make a small test on windless level road, no racks, somewhat warmer, around 50mph, and find what the base line is for your car. You should be able to get an instantaneous 40mpg or more without much problem. As mentioned, if not, then start looking for things like 12V failure, alignment issues, etc.

    I go up a large mountain, not very fast, and get 25mpg in the act. I remember to tell myself that the guy in the big 4wd V8 pickup that blasts by at high speed is only getting what....8mpg?
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Was this the posted limit? Or your personal limit?

    80 mph translates to 130 km/hr. I've never wound ours much past 100 km/hr. I think around here the highest posted limit is 110. And with those posted speeds, no one's going to fault you if you stay under, in the right lane.

    Your speed is the "low hanging fruit". Especially with all the jewelry on the roof, lower speed is a dead simple way to improve mileage. And your odds of stopping in time...
     
  10. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    Even with LRR tires, warm weather, no rack, at 80 mph you would expect only around 38 mpg based on bobwilson4web chart.

    So 28 ish seems very fair with the cD killing roof rack and the snows and the cold.
     
  11. okcwxguy

    okcwxguy Junior Member

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    What kind of fuel do they have out there? Is it 100% unleaded or 10% ethanol mixture? My mpg seems to drop a little more with the 10% ethanol mixture, especially in cold temps. Here in Oklahoma city we still have 100% unleaded at most stations, but thats supposed to be changing.

    okcpriusguy
     
  12. mcfarlandandrew

    mcfarlandandrew New Member

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    ML: Posted limit in Utah was 80, 75 in Idaho until within a few miles of Boise.
    OKC: 10% eth. around here so I guess 5 strikes against me getting great mpg this trip.

    Thanks for the feedback, sounds like 28mpg is within reason. Even if it's not a high speed gear hauling warrior that doubles our subaru mileage, it's still a great rig for 90% of our driving.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how many miles on her?
     
  14. mcfarlandandrew

    mcfarlandandrew New Member

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  15. gjsullivan

    gjsullivan Junior Member

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    I would estimate that the snow tires could be about a 6 mpg or more hit. For me the difference between LRR tires and performance tires was about 6 mpg. Snow tire would likely be worse. When I had a bike rack on the back with two bikes I got about a 10MPG hit at highway speeds. 80 mph is also a big hit.
    The Prius has one of the lowest coefficient of drag of any car, so stuff on the outside will have a significant impact. Also drag increases with the square of velocity, so if you double your speed the, drag force goes up by a factor of 4. So without doing the exact math, 80 is about %45 faster than 55 so your drag would roughly triple and then add that drag of the skis and ski racks and you have a lot of drag. Also the Prius has a small engine, that is just enough for the light weight, low drag car. The engine does not have a lot of excess horsepower to handle increased loads like cars with larger engines. I was surprised to see a 1o mpg hit with the bike rack and bikes. But considering I get almost 50 mpg without it I can live with the hit when I have the bikes on the back.
     
  16. longshot

    longshot Junior Member

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    I drove to Florida and because of the flat terrain, not as much coasting. I drove around 80mph temps were mid 70's and avg probably 46mpg

    SPH-L710 ?