Honda Accord Hybrid: 50 MPG City - clone Toyota

But it isn't a Prius competitor. It's a Camry hybrid one. Similarly equipped it's around a $3000 difference for much better fuel economy and, likely, driving dynamics.

 

This comes to mind for me when I see someone intentionally leaving their car idling. If it's parked outside in sub-zero, to help clear iced up windows, I can see it. But just to "warm it up"?

For me it borders on painful, to be going nowhere and burning gas.

Up here in Canada some car dealerships still like to define fuel efficiency in mpg. This is maybe 30 years after we converted to metric measurement. Gas is purchased in liters, and fuel efficiency is officially defined by liters consumed per 100 kilometer. But for some reason the dealerships love mpg: typically applying it to the highway mileage, and with a subtle twist: the numbers they publish are Imperial miles per gallon, and with an imperial gallon being (roughly) 5/4 of a US gallon, you can see where this is going...

 

Kinda surprised they can get away with that, or has no one simply challenged them on it. Are the manufacturer ads in L/100km?

 

Typo in my post. Should have read:

Miles per IMPERIAL gallon

And yes, Toyota, Honda etc use liters per 100 k

 

I went and test drove and Accord Hybrid EX-L this afternoon. Below is my review (Note: I had to break it into 3 posts since I think I must have exceeded some length setting or something and I kept getting a Server Error). Since the Accord Hybrid competes more directly against the Fusion Hybrid, I made that the focus of my comparison. I make a few references to the Prius, but since I consider the FFH to be a vastly superior car to the Prius, there isn't much point in comparing the HAH to the Prius. The test drive has reaffirmed my certainty that the FFH is the best mass-market sedan available.

The Accord Hybrid EX-L is a very nice car. But it is not as nice as the FFH.

Fuel Economy
When the salesman pulled the HAH around he had the heat cranked up so it sat and idled for a few minutes. Before leaving, I shut it off and reset all the trip meters and fuel consumption displays. The HAH does not provide as much fuel economy info as the FFH and this is a major strike against it for me. I drove a mixed city highway route with 35-40 MPH speed limit streets and 55 MPH speed limit freeway for a total of 15.0 miles round trip. The round trip took slightly more than 30 minutes. The outside temp was about 14F. When I left the dealer with the HAH the coolant wasn't warm enough for the ICE to shut off when the HVAC was on, but it was warm enough for the ICE to shut off without the HVAC being on. Just as I do in the FFH, I watched to make sure that the HVAC wasn't causing the ICE to run extra and I hardly used the HVAC for the first 2-3 miles. Once the coolant warmed up enough I left the HVAC set to Auto at 66F. After returning to the dealer and chatting with the (fairly knowledgeable) salesman about hybrids and the Accord in general, I took the FFH on the exact same route to compare fuel economy, acceleration, etc on the same roads. I even had almost the exact same sequence of red lights. I tried to drive the two cars as identically as possible. The FFH left the dealer with a useable SOC of 33% according to the ScanGauge and ended the drive with a useable SOC of 31%. The HAH began the drive with 5 bars on its battery display and ended with 4 bars. The fuel economy results are below.



The FFH did about 3 MPG better in the same drive. This is negligible to me and it appears that the HAH would get about the same MPG as the FFH. At least at 14F with limited heat and a slightly warm ICE to start they are pretty close.

Hybrid Powertrain
The HAH ICE is much louder than the FFH ICE with the new resonance chamber. It is about the same level of noise and the FFH ICE without the resonance chamber. It drives very similarly to the FFH except for its clutch to connect the ICE to the wheels on the freeway. The FFH can connect the ICE to the wheels without a clutch. Generally speaking the car begins to accelerate in EV mode and then the ICE comes on. The ICE seems to rev more slowly than the FFH ICE, but it quickly reaches a loud roar. Once you reach your cruising speed and ease up on the pedal the HAH quickly drops into EV mode and will cruise in EV just like the FFH at city speeds. The HAH provides minimal feedback about the hybrid system. There is a small display in the center of the speedometer which can display the ICE, the HVB and the wheels and show if the ICE is on or off. The display never seemed to show any power going from the ICE to charge the battery, the lines always indicated that power was leaving the battery. I know that this is not correct because I watched the HVB charge bars increase while accelerating using the ICE.

Highway Cruising
When cruising on the highway the HAH engaged the clutch to connect the ICE directly to the wheels. When accelerating onto the freeway it was using both ICE & HVB power. The transition when the clutch engages is a noticeable lurch in your momentum. The HAH will go into EV mode at highway speeds of 60+ MPH. When the ICE first starts after EV at highway speeds the clutch doesn't stay engaged and must re-engage after the ICE starts, resulting in another lurch when it engages. There is no noticeable lurch when the ICE shuts off at freeway speed and the clutch disengages. In the few (about 4) miles I drove on the freeway, the HAH appeared to show about 35-40 instant MPG with the clutch engaged. With the clutch engaged it didn't show current flowing in/out of the HVB.

Handling
The FFH has a sportier feel than the HAH. The steering has more feedback in the FFH. The HAH steering is light and limp and feels like driving the Prius.

Regen Braking
The HAH has better regen braking. The brake pedal feel is very much the same in the FFH, the HAH and the Prius, but the Prius & HAH can brake harder without engaging the brake pads according to their respective displays.

 

Interior Design
The Honda interior design is terrible!!! There are 3 screens in the center of the dash. The top one is what's show in the pic above and the current trip fuel economy data is the only useful info it can display. This is the screen where the back-up camera displays and the Lane Watch camera displays. The middle screen displays the radio/cell phone info. The middle screen is a touch screen. I'm young and tech savvy, and I was very frustrated by that screen. I had a hard time using it to control the radio since radio information will display on both the small screen and the big top screen once you start fiddling with it. I couldn't figure out how to display the song titles/station info anywhere on the screens. Then right below the middle touch screen are the HVAC controls and a small LED screen for the HVAC settings.

The center console is well designed. The parking brake is a console mounted lever and the cup holders are well placed. I agree with Alex from the YouTube video above that the location of the USB port is awful because it means you will have cords strung all over the car and there's no privacy to leave an iPod plugged in all the time out of sight like in the FFH. The seats are comfortable, but feel firmer than the FFH. My wife's first comment was that the seats are too firm and that it "feels like a Honda". Saying it "feels like a Honda" is not a compliment. While the dash materials are better than the TCH, they are nowhere near as nice as the FFH. The buttons don't feel like they are as high quality as in the FFH. The moonroof buttons and seat adjustment buttons feel especially cheap.

There is no compass built in, at least not in the EX-L trim (without navigation) that I drove. The outside temp is only displayed on the dash and is not visible to passengers in the car. The rear view mirror is auto-dimming. There are no garage door opener buttons except on the top-of-the-line Touring trim.

I didn't take the time to check out the back seat space because it was very cold outside. I also didn't spend much time looking at the trunk other than to confirm that the trunk is useless when the rear seats don't fold down. Back when we had our 2006 Accord Hybrid and out Saab 9-5 Aero, we often had to take the Saab because the Accord Hybrid didn't have a folding rear seat and had limited trunk space because of the batteries.

Safety Features
The rear camera has a really strange perspective that makes it look like the parking space is extremely narrow. The space I backed into when returning to the dealer was wide enough that the doors on both sides of the HAH could be opened all the way without hitting another car. However, the camera made it look like I was going to knock off the mirrors of the cars on each side of me when I was backing in. The Accord Hybrid doesn't have back up sensors and they are not an option. It also doesn't have the option of front parking sensors like the FFH. The HAH has Lane Departure Warning. It will not steer you back into your lane like the FFH with Lane Keep Assist. The Honda also offers Lane Watch. This feature activates a camera in the right side mirror every time you turn on your right turn signal which displays. I found this to be incredibly annoying. I would much rather have BLIS. The HAH doesn't offer any sort of blind spot monitoring system.

 

Exterior Design
The HAH looks nice from the outside, but not as nice as the FFH. However, the HAH does include driving lights!!! The DRLs are LEDs like the Prius and look very nice. There are no fog lights on the EX-L, but based on pictures in the Accord brochure it appears that the Accord Hybrid Touring does have fog lights. The HAH has LED tail lights and also separate bulbs for the turn signals in back.

Overall Summary
If you were to get into a Fusion Hybrid without the Ford badges you could easily think that you're sitting in a car that costs $45k+. When you hear about the available safety features on the FFH you could easily think that you're talking about a car that costs $45k+. When you look at the exterior design of the FFH you compare its looks with cars that cost $45k+. None of those statements apply to the HAH. The Accord Hybrid feels like a cheap car. The Accord Hybrid is not a cheap car, it costs over $36k for a Touring model and still has less features than our FFH SE. Our FFH SE had a sticker price of $37,395. For that extra $1000 over the HAH we have BLIS, Active Park Assist, Premium Paint, Premium Floor Mats & Premium 18-inch Wheels. That's a lot of extras for only $1000 more than the HAH. The only feature that the HAH has at that price that our FFH SE does not is Push Button Start.

Hopefully the HAH will cannibalize some Accord sales and get more people driving hybrids, but it is not serious competition for the Fusion Hybrid. The Fusion Hybrid is still, hands down, the best sedan on the market.

Fusion Hybrid Advantages

• Handling
• Steering feel
• Interior design/material quality
• Available safety features
• Exterior design
• Hybrid driving feedback
• MyFordTouch infotainment system

Accord Hybrid Advantages

• Better regen brakes
• Driving Lights are a standard feature
• Separate bulbs from brake lights for rear turn signals
• Push Button Start is standard on all trim levels

 

^ Do take dash displayed fuel economy with a grain of salt. FWIW, our previous Honda Civic Hybrid's display of mpg was conservative, ie: calculated was better. Not by much, it was close. My experience with Prius 3rd gen is the dash displayed mpg is seriously optimistic, around 8%.

Thanks for the extensive review! We were Honda fans for decades, but I'm spoiled by the Prius hatch capabilities now, and the mileage.

 

Dash fuel economy is a decent estimate though for comparison. The FFH is about 3% high in the 21,000 miles of records we have. The Prius runs closer to 6% high in our 5500 miles of records. Our old Accord Hybrid ran about 7.5% high based on about 13,000 miles of fill-up records.

For a short comparison, the dash results are good enough though.

 

great write up, have you tested the hycam?

 

Yes, we did a long comparison drive between it and the FFH before we bought our FFH back in 2012. The Camry was very uncomfortable and the interior was very cheap feeling, like the Prius. The Camry also didn't get as good of gas mileage as the Fusion.

 

was that the gen I or II?

 

2012 TCH, gen 2

 

What about Honda's corner crash test results .... shouldn't exceptional crash test results get tossed on Honda's 'better' pile, along with their push button ignition ? Ok, just sayin' .... maybe some prefer fancier light bulbs ... while others prefer avoiding broken legs. I wonder which of those 2 features costs more to include per vehicle. Not discounting the nice review here - just wondering if that one feature gets its due weight.
.

 

It's a new test. Great that Honda did better, but how does the two cars' overall crash test results compare? Does the Ford not doing well on the new test negate any of the measures it has protecting occupants in a crash? The difference between the two is close. We aren't comparing a Volvo to a domestic Chinese model here. Cars sold in the US are still some of the safest on the road despite a new IIHS test and how CR reacts to it.

With the blind spot monitoring, the Fusion could end up avoiding more accidents than the Accord.

 

Good point. I haven't looked at crash test results. The FFH is a Top Safety Pick+ because of it's good score on the small overlap crash test.

In my comparison above I was focused on the driving experience and hybrid power train design.

 

I don't understand why the title is "clone Toyota".... the Accord doesn't have a transmission like the THS. The accord uses a direct drive system from the motor to the wheels & engine to wheels (above 45).

BTW firm seats are a good thing..... they provide proper support for your body against the downward force of gravity.

 

And fails to pass the bare minimum LEV-3 standard. The reason today's cars get lower MPG than older cars is because they have to run richer to produce less pollution (NOx). Example:

Honda no longer makes lean-burn engines like your old CRX or the G1 insight and civic hybrids, because they won't pass emissions. Those old engines used to run as low as 1:25 fuel:air ratio (versus standard 1:15 ratio), but the government has effectively banned them.

 

Imagine a toyota owner completely unaware of the ~10 million engine recall, because it ran too hot, sludges the oil, and died as early as 15,000 miles even when oil was changed religiously. The problem extended across almost ten years @ Toyota's response was to VOID customer warranties (forcing them to spend $6000 to replace the engine). Very poor customer service.

Eventually several states and the US government had to prosecute Touota in order to make the company obey the law (honor the warranty instead of voiding it). It is amazing tat loyal Toyota owners have absolutely no knowledge of this event which is probably the biggest case ever of a car company performing poorly (blaming the customer for a bad engine design).

Of course this engine was never used in the Prous or other hybrids, so maybe that's why you've never heard of it. It mainly effected trucks and large sedans.

 

I agree about the thread title. You'd have to ask the OP why they gave the thread that name.

Firm seats are bad when the firmness isn't from side bolsters but is from a rock hard seat cushion.