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2010 Prius battery not holding up like second generation Prius

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by lucky1, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. lucky1

    lucky1 Member

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    I own 7 taxi's 5 of them are 2nd generation and 2 of them are 2010's .
    I have had a couple 2008's that had over 600,000km before they were written off in accidents and the origional battery was still working fine. They certainly were not 100% but still were running ok.
    I just ordered a hybrid battery for my 2010 that has 280,000km. Very disapointed.
    Another taxi broker with our company has 3 2010's and he has replaced the battery in 2 of them.
    I talked to a mechanic at Toyota and he says the battery is getting to hot because there is not as good of venting to keep it cool as the 2nd generation has. The 20 hour + days and the battery being so hot compared to the 2nd generation is to hard on the battery.

    The 2010's have all had transaxle problems and the 2nd generation never had any work done on the trasaxle which was amazing the way we eat transmissions in out taxi's.

    This breaks my heart because I love the better fuel economy of the 2010 especially in the cold Canadian winters and being able to shut down the ridiculous overkill traction control that gets my 2nd generation cars stuck in some embarrassing places.

    With the huge expense of replacing the battery and most likely having to work on the transaxle in the near future plus losing a lot of income with the downtime waiting for the battery to get here from California ( I guess they dont think the Canadian 2010's will need batteries and dont keep a few in Toronto so I get to wait a week longer than I should have ) it is not fiancially smart for me to run anything other than the very reliable 2nd generation tanks.

    A few years ago Toyota used Kingston as the city where they would do the release of the 2010 Prius and because our company has so many ZPrius they used our Prius taxi's when they were in town. I took a customer out to the airport and he had lots of questions and asking my opinion on the 2008 Prius I was driving and I gave him a great review of the car and he said he was impressed with what I said . Turns out it was the president of Toyota Canada .--- I dont think he would be impressed with my report on the 2010 Prius despite liking a lot of things about the car like better fuel economy and shutting down traction control .

    In a few years I wont be able to purchase 2nd generation Prius because we cant drive them past a cetain age and I hope to get 5 years and 500,000+ km out of the cars so I will have to look for something other than a Prius at that time. Trunk space on the Camry is way too small for a taxi because of the battery. need something that can take 4 people with luggage.
     
  2. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Is the battery vent routinely checked? I don't think it is in the scheduled maintenance. Perhaps Toyota should add it.

    Gen3 battery is rated with higher power due to better cooling. If the fan can't do its job, I can see how it could lead to shorter life.
     
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  3. hybridbear

    hybridbear Member

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    Perhaps you should look at the C-Max as a potential replacement if the current gen Prius is failing you. They have ample cargo space and excellent fuel economy.
     
  4. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Or maybe the gen3 isn't as well designed for longevity as the gen2.

    Now you have a North American confirming what both socrates and I have previously reported, will people now listen?

    The gen3 isn't lasting anywhere near as well as the gen2. I'm at 80k miles and my battery is cycling like it's on its last legs. I'll be taking it in for checking soon and will report back when I do.
     
  5. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I don't think it is still a "maybe". Looking at the results (I think we have enough), Gen3 isn't a tank like Gen2. I am just looking for root causes. So that other owners can pay more attention to.

    Gen3 bumped up the battery power using the same cells. The cooling takes less space but claimed to have better cooling performance. Raising the stealth limit from 42 to 46 mph does not help either.

    It may be the hercules heel as the vent can be blocked and maintenance item (not even to inspect) for it was not added.
     
  6. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I never really had an issue with my vent getting blocked that often. I think the heat is more to do with accelerate, brake, accelerate, brake x 10 hours a day. More was expected of the same size battery.

    Toyota knew what they were doing. They over engineered the gen2 to show reliability and then calculated what they could get away with in the gen3. It's only taxi use that is showing the shortcomings. Most private drivers won't give the car the same type of stresses (it's not the mileage, it's the use) as a taxi which is why private owners can run the gen3 upto 200k with no issues.

    I think it's still short sighted though. How many cars did Toyota sell on the back of it being fine for taxi drivers etc - remember the story of the 600k km taxi? Yet, that's not going to happen in the gen3 as we can now see. I wouldn't ever use another hybrid as a taxi as they're just too weak, too highly strung for the job. A good cheap diesel would achieve slightly less mpg but not cost £thousands in expensive parts that can mainly be fitted only at a main dealer.

    It's not all down to fuel costs. It's hard to quantify or prove but it's also the little things like servicing, ease of repairs by any garage not just a main dealer. The Prius is a nice car, but it's now too expensive for what it is and too highly strung. You wouldn't run a Ferrari as a cab for the same reasons. Give me a good old Ford, Skoda or Peugeot diesel for taxi work anytime. Prius reliability makes dpf issues look like a walk in the park :(

    I still like the smoothness of the Prius and thankfully no longer in the taxi game, but I just wouldn't recommend the hybrid for it.
     
  7. canta

    canta Member

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    just my observation: fan grill location on gen 3 is not in good location.
    the current fan grill location is easy got covered by passenger clothes.
    even my 4 years old son knows on how to put cookies or cover with plastics/papers/toys while sitting on car-seat. got to figure out.
    my only solution was buy a grill cover to avoid any debris (cookies especially) to clog the fan.
     
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  8. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Did't get many cookies put down my vent. Infact it was clear in there. You're right that it could easily get covered by passengers coats though. But my battery is weak at 80k miles and in the UK most individual passengers would sit in the front. More to due to with internal heat I recon. On a busy day once the car turned off using the battery as much as it could - revving the engine at about 2,500 rpm to power the a/c etc.

    I know if I had a busy day the floor in the back above the battery was very warm to the touch! Infact the carpet is darker just above the battery where it's attracted dust and dirt more with the heat?
     
  9. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    If a was in that situation, I might remove a cooling unit from a Peltier junction type of cooler ice chest and set up a refrigeration cooling unit for the battery.

    Since the Gen III can fit a larger 12 volt battery, I'd install the largest that will fit to handle the extra amperage draw.

    The charger does not detect the size of the battery. It just detects the charge and applies charging voltage.
     
  10. canta

    canta Member

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    for my experience for 5 months, easy to block fan grill on 3rd gen Prius. jacket/cloth/bag/etc, Even toddlers can do that easily..
    Toyota should move to a place that not easily blocked..
    I always check and tell anyone not to block that fan grill. paranoid? yeah :D..

    on my understanding, heat the most killer on battery.

    the best scenario is logging the battery temp and voltage for many months to know temperature fluctuation versus voltages.
    this is not hard, just OBD II compliance with Arduino+SD card can do, but I am lazy to do that since still my home automation project ( arduino+ethernet+wifi+nrf24010L+, beaglebone black, sensors, parts, coding) is still on going with my little spare time than used to be.
     
  11. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    The comparison between Gen 2 Prius and Gen 3 is interesting.

    I remember when Gen 3 was being released Toyota touting the fact that some HSD components were being made lighter and smaller...conceivably more efficient. But somewhere in the back of my head the idea that "lighter and smaller' sometimes means not as well made- popped in my head.

    It's not that I don't like Gen 3, or that I think it's a badly made vehicle. But I always thought Gen 2 Prius's were almost over-done.

    Therefore it is not beyond the realm of possible speculation that actually a Gen 2 Prius might be the hardier beast. Actually performing better in the arena of hard Taxi work. While the Gen 3 might be built to the standards of "every day" normal owner operator use....

    Since I'm not operating my vehicle as a "Taxi"....I suppose actually my standards are lower. If I can get at least the warranty period out of my battery...and 120,000 miles or more out of the vehicle as a whole without major repair? Then I'm happy.
     
  12. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    That was the transaxle, mainly MG2 (smaller but spins faster). I think it is holding up very nicely.
     
  13. bedrock8x

    bedrock8x Senior Member

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    The inverter module also made smaller, bu tnow needs software fix for reliability. :(

     
  14. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    And mine was replaced at 70,000 miles.
     
  15. hybridbear

    hybridbear Member

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    I agree that the fan vent location is a poor choice. IIRC, the new Accord Hybrid has the vent along the sides of the rear seats like the Prius. Our Fusion Hybrid has the vent in the back window tray, safe from being blocked. My parents C-Max Energi has the vent in the rear cargo area, also normally safe from blockage. Our old 2006 Honda Accord Hybrid also had the battery vent alongside the rear seat and rear passengers regularly blocked it.
     
  16. Bob G IA

    Bob G IA Member

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    Revving the engine? You do realize all the accesorries for the Gen III, like the A/C, are electric. There is never a reason to rev the engine in a Gen III.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think grumpy's theory is right. toyota probably shaved a ton of cost off of the 2010, but do we know if they made any improvements in subsequent years based on the '10's shortcomings? i'm sure every carmakers goal is to get x percent beyond warranty. i don't think we can expect 600,000 km out of any vehicle.
     
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  18. lucky1

    lucky1 Member

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    I agree Grumpy -- I was so happy for the most part with the 2nd generation Prius and so extremely disapointed with the 3rd generation . The fact that one broker has replaced the batery in 2 of his 3 2010's and I have already replaced one in a 2010 and my other 2010 has not been a taxi for very long along with the transaxle problems is all the evidence I need and I too will be looking other at other cars for taxi's. Another big problem in the Northern States and Canada is those chunks of rock hard ice that my drivers sometimes run over do a great job of taking out all the cheap but very expensive plastic along the wheel wells and under the center of the car. I spend a fortune on the plastic every winter. The car sitting so low means I go through several bumpers every winter. (cant teach my drivers to go around those big chunks of ice that have fallen off other people cars)
     
  19. lucky1

    lucky1 Member

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    Good idea to try to cover it up some way. I now have my mechanic blow any dust off the fan every three weeks when he does the service on the car.
     
  20. eddiehaskell

    eddiehaskell Member

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    I may be wrong, but if the gen 3 isn't built to the same standards, shouldn't more problems be showing up for private owners (compared to gen 2)? It seems like out of the 1M Priuses they sold in 2010/2011, surely there are 20k or so owners that treat their car like a taxi, right?