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Odd Brake Issues on 2005 Gen II with 140K miles

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by azapplewhite, Mar 10, 2014.

  1. azapplewhite

    azapplewhite Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
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    Location:
    Atherton, California
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    OK, so I have read all the forum threads I could find on "grabby" brakes and similar issues. My car has 140K miles and has never required any brake work.

    It is difficult to describe, at freeway speeds they seem to work fine. Around town, say 45 mph and below, the brakes work as though I'm a 16 year old learning to drive for the first time. I'll press a little, and get nothing, press a little harder and they really grab and the car lurches. But it also seems inconsistent, it doesn't always happen.

    Like I said, I read the threads on "grabby" brakes and dutifully cleaned or de-rusted or de-glazed my rotors. In fact I have several long down hills on the way to/from work and I have repeatedly shifted into neutral and used just the hydraulic braking (no regen). This has had NO perceptible impact on the "grabby" braking performance. Further, I would describe the hydraulic only braking as "excellent", they work just fine and I do not get any of the pulsing or weird brake behavior when braking with the car in neutral.

    I took it to the local shop and they did an inspection and test drive. Of course, the car drove perfectly when the mechanic drove it. He said the there were no error codes and that everything checked out OK. Still plenty of life left in the pads and the rotors. The only thing he could recommend was cleaning and lubing the calipers and replacing the front pads and resurfacing the rotors so we had a good baseline.

    I discussed the "brake stroke sensor" which came up in some of the threads. He called the local dealer, and they said they do not stock the brake stroke sensor and have not sold one in 2 years. Here in Palo Alto, CA, about every other car is a Prius, so while not exactly scientific, the mechanic said that sort of rarity makes it an unlikely contender. He said replacing it would run about $400, so it is not a cheap trouble shooting exercise :(.

    We have had some intermittent rain and it may be somewhat related to moisture, but it is NOT a "rust on the rotors" problem.

    Any suggestions for my next trouble shooting steps or a possible root cause??? THANKS!
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
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    Two
    If you don't have any skid control ECU warning lights [BRAKE, ABS, VSC, ((!))] then I would refrain from replacing the brake stroke sensor.

    If you have found that the brakes work well after you have shifted into N (which forces the hydraulic brakes to work regardless of speed or braking force required) then I don't see how working on the front rotors, pads, and calipers will help.

    Just for fun, you might disconnect the 12V battery negative cable where it bolts to the body, wait a few minutes, then reconnect. This gives the various ECUs a chance to power down and reset (especially the hybrid vehicle ECU) and maybe that would help.

    The hybrid vehicle ECU is responsible for monitoring vehicle speed and brake pedal movement and deciding how much regen to require MG2 to obtain while also deciding how much hydraulic braking force is required for the skid control ECU to obtain via the brake actuator. So if that ECU is getting flaky, that might cause the driveability symptoms you notice.
     
  3. azapplewhite

    azapplewhite Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
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    Location:
    Atherton, California
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Final Answer: So I tried Patrick's idea (disconnect the battery) because it was too easy not to try... but alas it had no effect.
    So I went ahead and had my mechanic do the front brakes (resurface rotors, new pads, lube all moving parts, clean everything) but as I kind of expected.. that didn't do anything either. Still had odd "pulsing" both at low speed (<10 Mph) and higher speeds (35 mph), though the brakes continued to seem fine when ever I shifted into neutral and braked using hydraulic braking only during down hills.

    So the mechanic did some research and was advised to adjust the rear brakes/parking brake and bleed the brakes. Though I was highly skeptical and went ahead and had him do both of those... and lo and behold.... the brakes WORK PERFECT now. No idea if is was the brake bleeding or the adjustment that did the trick, but the brakes feel better than they have in years.

    Note: Bleeding the brakes is apparently a PITA, don't attempt unless you have access to the Toyota service guides and a 2nd person to help. Perhaps there are some other posts on this forum about bleeding brakes, all I know is that it is not as straightforward as bleeding brakes on a "conventional" car.
     
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  4. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    Dec 10, 2011
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    Location:
    Hawaii
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    II
    People here have been using the mini VCI (eBay) to do the brakes with no problem. It is a bit more complex than convention, but still reasonably straightforward. At $30 it is cheap option. Glad you got the problem cleared up. Lots of help on this site.