48 Volt VW Golf TDI

I can't find this system with less components than a hybrid like the Prius.
Unless 2 MG -> 1 MG
Smaller inverter
Smaller battery

May seem less costs involved...but...
No EV driving, and the same Otto 1.2 with a shy BSFC region, means more fuel consumption than a full hybrid HSD.

No major advance IMHO.

(by the way, the title should refer TSI)

 

wow, it's as though they'd just invented the hybrid. Someone welcome these folks to the 21st century! Oh well, it is a step above the original start/stop Malibu hybrid.

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I don't see how this system can be cheap, current 1.4 TSI DSG Golf is already in the range of Auris Hybrid at around 20k EUR.

 

48 Volt VW Golf TDI


It's a gas motor in the Golf, not a TDI
TSI
The first paragraph of the copied and pasted article, just for clarification.

The Volkswagen Golf TSI I'm driving is stopped at a crossroad intersection, its engine having shut off automatically as the brakes were applied. When it’s my turn to move, I slip my foot off the brake pedal and the 1.2-L gasoline engine fires almost telepathically, with a level of smoothness I’d expect from an Audi—a V6 Audi.

 

Seems pretty Malibu to me. Stop/start is a very good thing, but P&G is needed for anything approaching Prius MPG, and this system is not it.

 

The thread title should be "Continental's 48V hybrid system". The Golf is just the car they happen to chose for a demostrator.

Of course it isn't as impressive as a Prius, or even a Civic hybrid. It is a basic mild hybrid. It's potential is that it is a 'bolt on' system. The M/G is small, and the 48V Li-ion battery is the size of a 12V lead acid starter. In theory, it should be cheaper and quicker to put this onto the majority of a makers line up than a full hybrid system. Perhaps it won't add anymore to the EPA numbers than a start/stop system, but it will give the user a better experience, and possibly mpg, than start/stop in the real world.

"Wiesenberger revealed that a production 48-V system based on the prototype is scheduled to launch at two OEMs in the 2016 time frame,"
I bet one of them is a Fiat-Chrysler minivan.

 

I'm not sure why you say this is "less" than Honda's IMA? It adds autostop instead of idling & assist on demand (about the same electric power as in the Civic). What it lacks is electrical storage, so the assist is only a few seconds until it's empty.

 

what happens at a stop with the a/c on?

 

Allow me to summarize:

Stop/stop: Good
Crappy regen (8kW): bad
No ICE efficiency improvements by way of e-cvt or similar function: very bad
No P&G: very bad

Did these folks not pay attention to the market response to the Malibu ? Chevy tried to sell stop/stop for about $2000 while Toyota was selling Prius for about a $4000 mark-up. Chevy improvement: about 1 mpg. Prius you know.

 

"...Tipping hard into the throttle, the powertrain controller calls for “E-boost” mode, as I point the Golf along the roller-coaster roads in appropriately named Auburn Hills, MI..."

It's a good thing I wasn't drinking something when I read this.

It's named Auburn Hills because it sounds classier than its former name of "Pontiac Township".

Roller coaster roads? Adams Rd or Squirrel Rd?

 

That depends entirely on the car manufacturer that uses this system in an actual model for sale. The thread title is misleading. The article is about Continental's(the tire company) mild hybrid system that they are supplying to as of yet undisclosed car companies. The Golf is just a demo car. It might be a clue as to who is interested in the system, or simply have been the cheapest or easiest to work car for their purpose. Continental designed this system to be easily added onto existing ICE car designs.

So the demo Golf likely just has whatever A/C a gas Golf on the dealer lot has. Now, the next Malibu that drops the eAssist for a start/stop system will be capable of at least partial A/C use with the ICE off. It only has a second 12V battery to run accessories when the engine is off. This 48V system should easily be able to do the same. It might even have the energy to run a full electric A/C during off times. But it is up to the car company that is buying this from Continental to decide on.

Without knowing the cost of the system, a fair judgement can not be made on it. Yes, it isn't as good as the Prius, but it is better than a straight ICE car.

BAS failed for GM because they weren't willing to be bold with. Underwrite it, offer it for cost, or even make it standard in multiple models, including the popular trucks and SUVs, and it could have been saving as much fuel as the Prius did in the fleet at that time.

Being 48v vs 36v of the BAS means this system has a better potential of allowing the car manufacturer to use electric A/C, water and oil pumps, and even electric super/turbo chargers. All we have is a mild hybrid system stuck on to, a possibly donated beater, to show that it works. Final judgement can't be called until we see it on a production car that has taken advantage of it during the design phase.

 

BAS, this, and GM's eAssist are all flavors of the same architecture at different voltages. Same limitations, a little more or a little less spit for polish.

The marketing line has always been "cheap, cheap cheap," but it is not. In fact GM has in the past paired the assist system with their older less efficient engines for a truly forgettable offering: more expensive overall with worse fuel economy than a model with a newer engine. Ridiculous. I presume this was done to keep the total 'electrified' car cost down, but it shows that GM has not learned how to integrate these simple assist systems inexpensively.

I frankly doubt GM can sell these cars at any volume until the additional cost is < $500 in an otherwise identical model.
After all, the fuel economy improvement is modest, and GM has proved they know how to add unreliability. They also labor under years of FUD they produced to denigrate hybrids in general. Now I am sure the marketers thought they could do an about face anytime they wanted by using the Chevy Volt as 'proof' that GM can do great electri(fied) vehicles if they want to, but the Volt is firstly not that reliable; and second has been marketed ad-nauseum as 'not a hybrid.'

Poor, stupid GM.

 

If this means what I think it does, it would be a nice feature to have on the prius, being able to call on full regen to slow the car without engaging the friction brakes. The 3 bars on the Prius v HSI for regen/brake zone are kinda vague and the prius braking system so smooth and seamless i really can't tell when the friction brakes come on especially at highway speeds. Not sure how fingertip braking would work in the real world though, maybe it would function the same as the cruise control does on the prius when holding the "decel" lever down.

 

I generally gauge my braking by where I need to stop. If I need to slow faster than max regen the brakes assist it. It's an excellent system as is.

Not sure where the value is in slowing at max regen. You recover more of the energy at less tan max.

 

One HP @ 42Vdc = 11.33 Amps (Conti battery)
One HP @ 201.6Vdc = 2.36 Amps (Prius battery)

 

The article said up to 8 kW regen. That implies a maximum current of about 15 Amps.

I was looking at a youtube video of the eAssist system GM has on a couple of cars. Pretty heavy duty cooling given the modest gains. Inefficient I presume.

 

My point(s):

• LOW voltage = HIGH current, for same POWER...requires BIG wires, has more parasitic power loss.
• HIGH voltage = LOW current, for same POWER...requires SMALLER wires, has less parastic power loss.

...and, voltages over 50Vdc and currents over 0.3Adc are both deadly...

 

8,000 / 42 = 190A

"let's heat up the wire"...