Amsoil Transmission Fluid Installed

Can't be too honest in my religion. Thou shalt not lie is 1 of 10 commandments I'm supposed to follow.

On the C-MAX Energi forums one person had an accident which damaged the A.C. system, which was repaired. It is not working well. There is an issue with PAG where it absorbs moisture and becomes conductive. There is nothing wrong with PAG until it absorbs the moisture, from an issue with the system, it seems, but to prevent this entirely PAG is not to be used at all, or even to contaminate it with equipment previously used to fill with PAG. Can't help but wonder if something similar is happening here...

SCH-R530M ?

 

While I do not recommend this ATF, the transmission is not a traditional CVT, it is one, or in Gen3 and later, two planetary gear sets, similar to any Automatic, but with 3 power input/outputs and complex software to emulate a CVT to the driver.
No cones and belts as in a traditional CVT.

for a propaganda laced example of a traditional CVT

Here is a (boring) demonstration of a Gen 2 eCVT, no real clutches, no shifting, no components relying on friction.

 

what is the first one, a golf cart?

 

They did not say, but it had clear visuals showing the belt and expanding cones and how friction was needed to work. (that is why Amisoil is likely worried about CVTs, if you built a better oil with lower friction in a transmission that needed friction, that would be bad)

The Prius is all gears and does not rely on friction (there is a clutch, but it is always under pressure so does not slip unless there is a catastrophe. Someone had an oil seal leak, THEN it slips)

Here is a noisy demo with an automotive CVT, again it needs friction for the belt to turn pulleys

 

Nice info Jimbo. Thank you!

 

That´s pretty much a classic snowmobile drive setup but many types of small vehicles use that style of CVT clutching.

There are also toroidal (roller) CVTs but I don't think any production cars are using them right now (Nissan did).

 

But, you forgot to mention you are also a dealer.

DBCassidy

 

zing! busted!!

 

Ok, I have to chime in with my thoughts and take EDTEHEFOX's logic. Lets take the legal, logical route here.

First off, Toyota does NOT make fluid. They OEM the fluid to companies that MAKE fluid. That's like saying Toyota makes the cloth and carpet for their seats and floors. They may "Use" the cloth but not manufacture it. It doesn't make sense. That's like Panasonic saying you have to use only a specific electric company to run your electronics. As long as the MFR specs are met, it will do fine.

Second, would Amsoil, Valvoline, etc. risk a class action law suit from Prius or Hybrid owners if there fluids were not "meets or exceeds MFR specifications and do what their "special" fluids do??? If that's the case, every Prius owner that uses non-Toyota oil in their engine would be voiding warranties and suing the fluid companies. Remember, Toyota uses fluids that are already manufactured by someone in the world. They look for the specific qualities their machinery needs, finds a fluid already available in the world, then spec's it out. They make a deal with the manufacturer of the fluid and then has a contract with them to provide their fluid exclusively.

Third, oil type fluids do 3 things: Lubricate, cut down friction and cool the components via heat exchange. The key here is meeting manufacturer spec with the fluid and changing fluids BEFORE they loose these qualities. I think all Prius owners know its better to change the CVT fluid BEFORE the recommended interval, simply because with the electric windings, the CVT's heat up very substantially and breaks down the oil's qualities. I change my fluid at least every 20k because I want to save my CVT from overheating and wear. This oil does not have dielectric properties. If it did, it would interfere with the electrons and resistance of the electric motor, and possibly cause MORE resistance by grounding out the armature or coils on the aluminum case of the transmission. "Dielectric Grease" used by electricians protects electrical connections from corrosion. It prevents oxidation and rust from occuring causing resistance. It does not improve continuity.

So, in the end, match up the fluids whether its Red Line, Valvoline, Amsoil, etc. with the specs Toyota recommends, and change them BEFORE recommended intervals. Be smart about things and you will be OK. Most manufacturers use fear as a tool to convince people they HAVE to use their stuff so they can sell more and create a monopoly. Yes Toyota's stuff is top quality, but its not the ONLY quality.

 

Wow, where to start.....

Dielectric increases electrical resistance not decreases.
Motors are brush-less, dielectric has no effect except for windings (then any dielectric property could be handy).
Electricians/mechanics use dielectric grease to prevent sparks which damage wires/connections much faster than oxidation

Bottom line is still use whatever you think works best and if you think there's no difference then fill your boots but stating that as fact is another thing entirely.

 

The one thing that bothers me: many of these Prius with "experimental" fluids end up going to second owners.

 

Jerry G., you pretty much nailed it. Nuff said.

 

Good luck with the Spamoil.

DBCassidy

 

Best of luck with the above.

DBCassidy

 

if amsoil says their oil meets Toyota WS specs, then it will be fine to use it. its not snake oil. I think changing the CVT oil every 20k is OCD, but YMMV. when I did it to my '04 at 100k, the fluid was nasty looking. it got done again at 160k and the fluid was clean and cherry red. transaxle still worked perfect when I sold it at 203k. both of my current cars had it done before I got them, and when I did them again the fluid still looked new. there seems to be a consensus that every 60k is about right; certainly any reputable brand of oil that meets WS specs will be fine.
dielectric grease-- as auto techs know it-- is not conductive. but electronics techs had a conductive white paste grease (or used to, I don't know if they still do) which you smear on the bottom of power transistors to make good contact with their heatsinks. 2 different products which are easily confused.

 

I agree with you completely. I am an EE working with 3 Phase power. You"ll always find people telling you how impossible something is because they couldn't hope to ever do it themselves. I been working on Prius for years, I have repaired just about everything on the prius. Including the engine, transmission and HV battery. I am actually reconditioning one with 6 B6 charger right now. Let me know if you need any help with your Prius, and keep up the post.

 

Given he was last here over 4 years ago, you might be waiting awhile.

 

That or the MG windings s**t the bed because AMSOIL does not have the same insulation (dielectric?) properties as Toyota’s stuff.

This is a rare case where I would just stick with the OEM product.

 

There is no dielectric properties of WS and the fluid does not come near the winding's.

The winding's are cooled by the Inverter coolant passages which surround the motors in sealed chambers that are up against the winding's. Those sealed chambers circulating the coolant pick up the heat from the winding pack.