Hybrid owners going to pay more for registration?!?!?!

Well, there's really not much sulfur left in gaso to cause acid rain. The real reason for the ultra-low sulfur gaso is to enable the catalytic converter to operate at highest efficiency ( to reduce CO, NOx, HC) (reduce smog) whereas trace sulfur reduces catalytic converter efficiency.

 

Then one would question the need for ethanol at all. Well except for perhaps in the north during winter. I'm sure the ethanol industry can't be happy about this.


iPad ? HD

 

We all know that Prii are driven by wealthy people and therefore are Republicans. Perhaps they can pay their fair share of the taxes?

I'm being facetious

 

Perhaps not wealthy (yes I know you are being facetious) but its not easy to make a financial case for buying a Prius, even with all the rebates and savings on gas. A similar, small, reasonably fuel efficient car is certainly cheaper to purchase and most likely cheaper in the long run. A used car in good condition is definitely less expensive.

 

I would agree there is no scientific need for ethanol re: emissions...that's a US Congress policy decision to favor ethanol for energy independence, but let's face it politics too ...on the other hand, going to near-zero gaso sulfur is a scientifc rationale to reduce smog by improving catalytic converter performance. Same basic rationale on diesel sulfur except we can add reduced particulates to the benefits.

Does OR have hybrid fee as OP thought maybe there was a fee in OR?
In VA, the hybrids tend to be in Dem areas such as North VA, so the Repubs liked the idea of reducing state gaso taxes (which VA just did). It's sort of counter-intuitive as repubs sorta like gaso taxes, but in VA case it was felt that tax favors hybrid drivers. There was an attempt to tax hybrids but nobody like that except a few who pushed it.

 

The reason for the ethanol requirement is clear: support for the corn agricultural interests in the mid-west in return for generous campaign contributions. Alternative ways to reduce emissions, or even alternative sources for ethanol (producing ethanol from corn is very energy intensive), are not considered.

 

The idea of a $100 extra registration fee for hybrids (or even any high mpg car) makes no sense. We need to educate our law makers on the math since they are obviously a product of the poor education system that the prior legislatures provided for them.

Some basic assumptions:
Gas costs about $4 per gallon and includes about $0.71/gal taxes in CA (state and federal). But there is also a ~7.5% (more for some locations) sales tax that is applied to the cost of the fuel and the state and federal taxes. Thus about $0.28 more...Or about $1/gallon total.
A typical driver goes 15K miles per year, so let's look at the taxes for vehicles that get 20, 30, 40, 50 and 100 mpg.

I know this is the dreaded "word" problem in math, so politicians may get confused.

taxes = (tax rate per gallon) * (gallons used)
taxes = tax rate per gallon * miles / mpg

at 20 mpg: $1 * 15000 / 20 = $750
30 mpg: $500
40 mpg: $375
50 mpg: $300
100 mpg: $150

The average age of a car on the road is 11-12 years old. That means many cars have a useful life of 15-20 years. Adding $100/year means the car owner(s) will pay $1500-$2000 more for the car just because it is a "hybrid." Why would someone buy a 40 or 50 mpg hybrid instead of a 30-40 mpg conventional car. It already costs more and will now cost $1500-$2000 more. The savings is only about $75 - $125 per year anyway. The "incentive" should be to buy higher mpg cars, not the opposite.

Meanwhile, at best, hybrids and EVs might be a few percent of all registered cars, maybe as high as 5% in the next 5 years. Raising the car registration by $5 for everyone generates the same amount of money.

Another dreaded word problem...how much would the gas tax need to be raised to generate the same amount of money?
Assume 5% hybrids/EVs. 15K miles per car. $4 gas. 25 mpg fleet mpg. Each car generates $600/year (see above). We just need $5 extra per car per year. So instead of $600, we need $605. That means less than a 1% increase in the gas tax...or less than 1 cent on the current $0.71/gal.

Clearly, this "hybrid" tax should be seen for what it is. A new thing for politicians to tax rather that just do the simple, most cost effective thing...just raise the gas tax by a penny.

Mike

 

Not knowing the background to this - do you have an annual fee/tax for cars anyway, and if so, how it set?

Over here, there is an annual car tax, which is based on emissions. The biggest gas guzzlers pay £500, but at under 100g/km CO2 you pay nothing. The PiP is 49 g/km, so well under the nil threshold.

 

Here is a link.
You can see that there are a number of variables, but cost is the biggest factor.

Vehicle Registration Fee Calculator

Enter various numbers etc and it will details out the sales tax and the annual registration fee.
The registration fee drops each year after that by some factor (maybe 10-15%)

Mike

 

Boy, that's complicated. We have to pay 20% VAT (sales tax) but we pay that on most things. For the annual car tax, the tables are here:
Vehicle tax rate tables - GOV.UK
There are various tables for weird things like very old cars, but mostly it's a rate for the first year then a lower rate afterwards, based on the emissions figure which is on the vehicle documentation.

 

Complicated only for the DMV. Owners just send in their info and a bill gets sent each year, nothing for the consumer to actually do. The web site just allows anyone to do the calc themselves. Its actually relatively simple. You pay based on the value of the car, the car/fuel type. And each year it drops. And some localities have extra fees based on your zip code.

Mike

 

Leave it to government reasoning; "if those guys are already paying more for a car, they won't mind paying more for the registration."

 

First of all, does anyone have a link to this??? Or are we being like politicians and going off heresay?

Second, California already has the highest fuel tax(71.4 cents per gallon). Cars becoming more efficient is bogus, i really doubt the amount of tax dollars coming in has decreased. The annual fuel consumption in the U.S. has remained steady at just over 18,000 barrels of oil per day. California is in a huge budget crisis, they are hemorraging money left and right. IMO, they are simply using this as an excuse, which sounds reasonable to people, to generate more tax revenue.


Here in PA, i only pay $36 per year for registering any vehicle.

 

Actually, this year there is a budget surplus in California, due to the upturn in the economy. Our governor had to rein in his fellow Democrats, who control both houses of the state legislature, to prevent them from going on a wild spending spree.

 

I personally like to see the whole picture, and not a cropped version of it. California still owes money to long term liabilities like pensions for public workers which no one has addressed. They simply keep pushing it off, making it look like financially they are in the black for the year. They are simply doing careful accounting and cooking the books, pushing off debt and shifting funds. Plenty of companies do this, so it's no surprise the government does too. But in reality, if they put all the money into the surplus just in the teachers pensions alone, they would only be paying for about 1/4 of what teachers are requesting.

Wall of Debt - Unsustainable California

Here's an article from last year that mentions the fluxuations in registration fees. It seems that that money goes to the general fund, and not necessarily road work.
5 Reasons California Went From A $42 Billion Deficit To A Surplus - The National Memo

 

The OP said he heard it on the radio. AFAIK there is not specific bill or proposal.

But as far as hybrid registration fees go, hybrids (and PHEVs) are already slightly favored in that they are not required to have smog checks which after a couple of years are every other year, then maybe every year and upon sale. And, of course EVs are exempt as well. This is $8.95 to the state and $30 - $50 to the service station and the time to go do it. It is quite doubtful that any such new tax for hybrids, EVs etc would get passed. The air in LA (especially) needs more smog-free and low smog tailpipes.

Every state has a different mix of what is or isn't taxed, etc.
I thought taxes in CA were high...but then I looked at this list. Philadelphia shows up in all levels but no CA cities...very surprising.


Highest State Taxes
$25,000 $50,000 $75,000 $100,000 $150,000
Philadelphia, PA 16.4%Bridgeport, CT 20.7%Bridgeport, CT 19.0%Bridgeport, CT 18.0%Bridgeport, CT 15.7%
Birmingham, AL 14.5%Philadelphia, PA 13.7%Philadelphia, PA 12.4%Philadelphia, 12.1%New York, NY 12.1%
Louisville, KY 13.6%Baltimore, MD 11.6%Des Moines, IA 11.4%New York, NY 11.7%Des Moines, IA 11.3%
Charlotte, NC 13.4%Detroit, MI 11.4%Detroit, MI 11.2%Des Moines, IA 11.6%Portland, ME 10.9%
Honolulu, HI 13.1%Des Moines, IA 11.3%New York, NY 10.9%Portland, ME 11.4%Philadelphia, PA 10.9%

(see source for better formatting)
source: State Tax Rates Comparison - Sales, Income & Social Security Tax

Mike

 

...OK Pa. I think the PA gasoline taxes are increasing to eventually catch up with CA, unless CA increases further.
But you're lucky, many states do charge annual "property" taxes on cars, VA being one of the most notorius.

 

Here's a link to the article to which I referred in post #3 in this thread. It explains how the rate would be raised over time by 1%, from .65 to 1.65%. I'm wondering if the OP might have heard a discussion where someone misread the rate and thought it meant an increase from $65 to $165, and all at once. There is a reference in the article to hybrid owners not paying a fair share at the pump.
California: Proposed vehicle license fee hike would raise $3 billion a year to fix roads - San Jose Mercury News

 

Multiply what the state government claims the debt to be by 17 and you get the true debt. The state has been bankrupted by the government.