4th generation coming 2015!

What is the point of having 60 mile plug-in FCV? You would use so little hydrogen that you would carry extra weight 90% of the time, not to mention what would happen to hydrogen if you would carry one tank for months. How fast does it leak through the walls?

 

Wow that's really an exciting time to live, so many progress in many things! Just a thought, wanted to share it

 

Your question leads to the question that is the current situation with the Volt. Obviously if Hydrogen needs to be used the engine will cycle on most of the time.

The main point of it is the infrastructure. While the Hydrogen stations may first be built far and few in between, the EV system is coming to fruition (still not plenty like a gas station, but way ahead of hydrogen). Add to that the ability to plugin at home you got something that runs on clean fuel, can be charged by clean energy sources, not totally sold to the EV portion of long charging (though I await better chemistry to half the time and double the density) and time to increase the infrastructure.

 

They chose to cut the fuel tanks from 4 to 2 instead allowing to downsize from SUV (Highlander) to Sedan. It also cut cost.

 

Good point.

I think the best route is to use natural gas to convert it to H2 at home. The waste heat generated from it can heat water for home usage. The breakthrough will come when H2 reformer are downsized to furnace size.

This way, you can refuel at home and there is no need for overnight recharges.

 

I wish they would hurry up already and release what it's going to look like!

This way I can have a good idea if I'll be getting a new car in 3-4 years after the refresh or waiting for the Gen 5.

 

I know they have sunk tons of money in research / tooling, and are ready to start production... but why can't they also "borrow" the Tesla patents, since it's now free? They already have the experience with the system with the Rav4ev. I'm still not convinced that storing a large amount of compressed explosive gas a car is a good idea. Hydrogen on demand (from another source... say ammonia) is one thing, but we're talking about mobile bombs roaming the streets with even bigger bombs at fixed locations (refueling stations).

I remember in Chem 101, when my professor had a balloon filled with H2 tied to podium of the lecture auditorium and lit it with a 10 foot pole. I remember gasping, as I felt the heat hit my face 8-12 rows back.

 

Several times recently I have posted confidence in Toyota that the final G4 design would be attractive and appealing. After looking at the FCV .... i'm not so confident. I (sort of) like the side profile, but the front end is downright ugly (IMO). It is almost like after years of bing criticized for being bland and unexciting, they turned the design team loose to create brash and repulsive. I will not own a FCV, so it does not make that much difference to me, but I dislike it that Toyota seems to be chasing "trendy" designs. Again, I suspect all that "busy-ness" on the front corners is nothing more than a lot of faux decor.

 

So about the FCV design. Toyota has to know that this car is not going to sell in lots of numbers. There just isn't currently the infrastructure to support it. Therefore, I think they want to create an awareness, and like someone else said a few posts back, it can't look like anything before it, because it's a completely new technology! I don't believe they'll push the G4 to this extreme by any means. The FCV look is for a new technology car to create an awareness of it.

 

If that were true, then Toyota could simply paint them all Shrek Green or Puke Purple for guaranteed "visual uniqueness."

 

The prius has a unique/"trademark" wedge shaped design, so why not the FCV?
Theyre trying to lead the forefront of a new market, I dont think a color will suffice. They need a design that will get people talking.

 

It seems Gen4 is going to be late 2015 after all. And worst still, Prius Plugin and/or NS4 will be 2016.

Next-gen Prius launch delayed 6 months

And it is interesting that they are saying next gen HSD will not feature SiC based power controllers - we sort of knew that. But does that mean it could feature supercapacitors? - After all Mazda already has cars on the road with this tech so we know it is workable.

 

This is interesting:

Toyota's hybrids currently have 1.5, 1.8, 2.5 and 3.5 engines, every engine demands it's own size of hybrid system. The smaller (lower power) the engine the cheaper the hybrid system, but only a small gain in MPG. Other than new 1.3 that can run Atkinson in normal car and gets the same power as current 1.5, I don't really see room for wider range of engines. All the current engines will probably see 10% boost in power, maybe Prius will also get different engine options, cheaper 1.5 (nice Chinese displacement) and 1.8?

 

I gathered that it will likely be 2016 before the Gen4 comes out and then maybe even 2017 until the PiP comes out.

Hopefully this implies hybrid drivetrains for minivans and small trucks (Tacoma).

 

Ahh darn.

So it seems there is some unsettling issues at Toyota regarding the Gen IV. My take is they wanted a brand new design, but did not want to compromise mpg, however may have - and on top of that with negative reaction to the FCV, and issues at GM and their own issues - they want to be sure TNGA will work...it's ultimately delayed (I'd say it's the 2nd delay, because the first was fall 2014 but they said since the Tsunami it probably wouldn't.) Now enter the Prius as a 2016 model (even then it might not be true).

Could Toyota get trapped in 'development hell?'

But yeah, next gen Leaf, next gen Chevy (and GM will have a 'surprise' for us will be out then. Add to that we should know what the next gen ford hybrids should look like, and larger EV range and batteries on a lot of vehicles...

Damn! The competition would have caught up I think. Now is the time for GM to announce that they have cracked 45 or 50 mpg for the new volt. Now is the time other manufacturers strike with Toyota technology of the hybrid engine (since the patents are up). Now is the time for Honda to keep improving.

I hate to say it, we were in the market for another car, we were gonna wait for a Toy hybrid (next gen) - but it may actually be something else now!

 

What is a little sad, I might add...

There were spyshots released on the Volt 2.0 (and it's different models) earlier this year, planning for a 2016 Model release (so release in 2015). The Prius Gen IV spy shot was released over a year ago.

Spy shots of the FCV was released like a month ago and then confirmed production design...My take actually is that Toyota wants to push everything they can on other projects to take off pressure on the 4th gen. They know that competition is catching up, patents expired and are in an awkward situation to support EVs, but not really, go hydrogen...go wireless charging (which as far as I can tell, they are the ONLY ones doing that but not even supporting EVs...see the disconnect?)

Toyota's focus seems definitely divided.
How to make an already awesome hybrid better and jump ahead of the competition?

• Well, design...ok that might effect mpg...
• Convenience, ok that might cost more money to wirelessly charge, and late in the game of testing it, plus maybe it's not as efficient as plugs and do they put in the tech on all Prii? Oh yeah, EVs not the future so hmmm...
• Improve MPG - oh yeah that's the original goal, but maybe the current Prii are too wedge-like and a turn off to most.
• Play around with extended EV range, but not really because EVs not the goal.
• Play around with FCV, because we're greener and cleaner - but wait the infrastructure is not here...plop in the synergy drive and tech is now as cheap as Tesla, again EV not the goal
• Play around with newer tech to jump ahead of the competition, but may take longer to test...longer release date
• Current Prii selling well, keep selling until it falls a little - there was an uptake again last month
• People not really satisfied with FCV design...
• Implement TNGA because that'll be more efficient. VW is doing it and Honda WILL BE...wait but that dependence thing, GM thing, must make sure all is good and safe...
• Plugins are not really good either, why plugin a vehicle when it's an efficient hybrid?
• Talk about "Radical Design" and "new tech" - but wait new tech inside mattters, new design could have negative impacts (FCV not liked, bad MPG)...let's just go back to the old prius and let it sell

See the problems here?

I like the competition and I love the fact that I think all manufacturers feel like building a hybrid as good as the Prius or **better** is within range. However, I do not with Toyota to go the way as the AMD. AMD chips had something new, cheaper, efficient technology and multiple cores (not hyper threading). But then Intel swooped in, caught back up and retook it over.

Another article stated PiP next gen will be scheduled to be released 2016 Oct. And right now we're looking at fall 2015 for the Prius Gen IV - as a 2016 model? I can definitely see another delay in the future (2017 gen iv Prius anyone) if Toyota doesn't get there act together.

2009-2014 inclusive is 6 years that the Gen III has been out. Now we're moving into the 7th, and maybe the 8th. People can say (they can say) they'll release it when its ready. But the speculation - "no comments" etc...and the FCV and public response seems discerning that Toyota is not sure what they want to do with the Gen IV (especially when the spyshots were released).

Then there are Toy workers who say the Gen IV is beautiful, but you have to wait a while (they may be right afterall) - but then from the looks of it, maybe it's not beautiful because looks will change!

 

If they are trying to make more parts interchangeable between models, does that mean the one's we don't look at and see? (IE Wiper Motors, Air Filters, etc) Or both the fore mentioned and then things like door handles, knobs, steering wheels, speedometers? If this is the case then the Prius would be losing some of the things I like, digital dash for one.

 

Tesla ($$ makes it prohibitive unfortunately), Toyota, and GM (Volt), oh my!

 

Another interesting thing about the timing of the PiP is that it might coincide fairly closely with the timing of the cheap Tesla release. That would be tough sledding for a PiP if they were anywhere close in price.

 

...in light of "new" GM's "automotive hardware" problems, I would think twice, thrice, a whole bunch of times before I would ever get-in-bed with a VOLT!