Toyota Shows Distain: Even for their Own RAV4-EV

After having 2 Fords I was done with them. Plus the local Ford dealership is terrible. I wanted to get away from Ford.

 

We probably don't talk here about the ev1 is technology is much better and less expensive today.
Rick Waggoneer, the head of GM that crushed the ev1, has said it was the worst mistake he made along with not investing more in hybrids. He said it didn't affect profitablity, but did hurt image. He was also the ceo that made the decision to spend so much on Fuel Cells ($2.5B cumulative). That money definitely affected profitability.

batteries do indeed have an exponential decrease in cost, but this is about 7% a year, not nearly the rate of silicon. Big screens also follow this idea. Think of what a tv cost 25 years ago versus today.

Lots of platinum on the roads from catylitic converters. Batteries can be recycled at a higher rate, and are today. Fuel cells may need a lot less platinum with some breakthroughs, but they use a lot of platinum today.

 

Batteries, of any kind (that we know of) are big, heavy and expensive. If we consider them the limiting factor, then the smartest use of them, IMO, is to put a little bit of them in more and more cars. This means just plain hybrids. But "everyone" isn't on board with this, else hybrids would be selling at 2x or 5x the current rate. So we can put more batteries in some hybrids, such as the PIP. On paper, the PIP makes much more sense than the Volt, in that with the same number of batteries you can make 3-4x the number of cars, which, in total will travel more EV miles per year than dedicating all those batteries to a single car.

But, I doubt that Lithium batteries, over time will be the limiting factor.

Mike

 

I don't think anyone knows this. In Santa Clara there were a few hydrogen FC buses a few years ago. The test project was canceled after a few years. The total per mile cost (excluding purchase price) was about 32 times as much compared to regular city buses. FC buses needed maintenance every 1000 miles compared to every 6000 miles for diesel and the repair costs were more expensive per visit.

link: VTA finds hydrogen buses cost much more to run than diesel vehicles - San Jose Mercury News

The most glaring figure: Zero-emission buses - or ZEBs - cost $51.66 to fuel, maintain and operate per mile compared with just $1.61 for a 40-foot conventional diesel coach. They break down much more frequently, and replacement parts are next to impossible to order, according to the report.

Mike

 

Who said battery is cheap? Want to know how much a Rav4EV's replacement battery cost?

Lets just say, I rather buy the new Tesla 3 when it comes to it out of warranty.

 

Commodore SX-64, my second computer.

 

Deja Vu all over again.
BMW Crushes ActiveE Units En Masse | The Truth About Cars

 

BMW had those (and the MiniE) for real world testing, so it is expected. They are now selling i3/i8 around the world.

Now Toyota is going to kill off the Rav4EV after 2600 built, and tell everyone EV sucks. All the while they go about building a PHEV they call Fuel cell that only a few will lease.

And you watch, the lease is a close end lease... just like the BMW you complaining about. Toyota will crush them all too. At the end, no EV or fuel cell cars.

Even before Toyota starts crushing them, look at the Honda FCX Clarity's fate soon as leases will end.

 

Just goes to illustrate that we (USA) do NOT have exclusive domain over Automotive Stupidity & Lack of Foresight (...sigh...)

 

Very few similarities, really very different.
BMW has a successor to the ActiveE, GM did not.
The i3 is much more widely marketed than the ActiveE ever was.

 

Buy two and double your range?

 

Is there any surprise someone would not love their Tesla?
Here it is 15+ yrs after EV1 and manufacturers are still having problems getting the batteries cheap enough with acceptable longevity. I'd say the movie over simplified quite a few of the points. I disagree with many of the movie's conclusions, and all of the conspiracy theories.

 

1900 car:


1910 car:

1920 car:


1930 car:

1940 car:


1950 car:

1960 car:


The EV1 was just under 20 years ago. The modern EVs are less than 5 years old and we are still learning how to make better batteries. Heck, four years ago, folks were buying after-market, plug-in kits for the Prius. Seriously, what we have now is at best similar to the 1910 model cars as far as the learning curve.

We were born with the reality we have. We can support today's EVs and help pave the way, make the 'lessons learned' needed for the next generations.

Bob Wilson

 

Not only that, but the car gets drunk.

 

I have no worry about FC cars having any impact in the near future as their price tag is crazy. If the technology and the fuel become economically and environmentally viable in the next 5-10 yrs, then great. Otherwise, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Perhaps Toyota execs are losing sleep over it, but hey, if you never take your shots, you'll never score. Every once in awhile, you have to swing and miss or you are not swinging enough.

 

Try an at bat blind folded.

 

...pls give me the cost for a RAV4 replacement batt

 

At least in Japan the toyota pr strategy of insulting bevs has worked at getting government to highly subsidize the cars.

Japan PM says will offer about $20,000 subsidy for fuel-cell cars| Reuters

we don't know yet whether METI will give toyota and honda the money on cars exported also, but it is likely. This is the figure WSJ guestimated, and it makes the Toyota strategy make more sense. This is on top of the japanese government paying most of the cost on hydrogen stations.

Remember the toyota battery is orphaned. Toyota will decide how much to charge customers for batteries, and may set resale price much higher than tesla does, as they don't want these cars on the road.
Scion iQ EV - Actual Sales Versus Toyota's Initial Expectations