Prius Plug-in and Volt Pros and Cons

I'd love to have the EV range of the Volt, but I wouldn't trade it for the Prius's cargo space, the gas mileage, or the proven reliability.

But the Volt is a pretty little thing.

 

That would rank you at #4 on the top 20 MPGe list for the PiP (you ranked #2 driving your PiP).

It does, however, make you #1 on the top 10 MPGe list for the Volt. I'm now pushed down to 2nd place with 116 MPGe combined (134 MPGe EV) which I got doing my long work commute primarily on the highway.

You should get usb to update the list:

Volt - Top 10 MPGe | PriusChat

 

If anyone decides to debate THAT remark, it should be good for another few hundred messages.......in a thread that is already somewhat bloated.

 

Cool, didn't know that Volt listed existed but unsure of the proof needed since there's no accumulated kWh ?

30 day report ?
I'm a newbie
Keep in mind too that I used a 15% efficiency loss like the PiP not the 19% but I guess I'm still up there...

not entirely sure what his post means but Greg likes his car - no problem there!

 

Here's what I meant: I can get more EV range with a Volt, but I'd have to give up the stellar fuel economy, the ample interior space, and the legendary Toyota reliability.

 

Here is my .02 I just hit my first 1300 miles ish on my PiP, and yes the appeal of more ev range is tempting. However what lead me to the PIP over the volt reamins.

The basic:

1. not much back seat room, (the whole reason I needed to replace my gen 1 insight)
2. Slight higher price deepening on month and incentives.

The less black and white issues:
After reading volt forums, many quality issues with car software and rear struts.

If the there was a PIP with the powertrain trade offs of a volt, it would be a good choice for me, however the PIP still gets me HOV access and good mpg so it seems to suit me fine.

 

If I plugged in at both ends of my commute, I could almost go EV-only. As it stands, I don't really bother, because here, electricity costs about 65% as much as gasoline. It's also a bit of a hassle for me to plug in, therefore I don't plug in very often.

If I had chosen a Volt instead, I could probably do the same by plugging in at one end instead of both, but I'd have lost the superb fuel economy I enjoy on longer trips, and I'd lose a lot of interior space and the legendary Toyota reliability.

 

But is the "legendary Toyota reliability" reputation still deserved? I am not saying that it isn't, just asking. I have heard that quality standards at Toyota went downhill after the MBA types wrested a significant measure of control of the company away from the Toyoda family.

 

- Your first point is one Greg brings up and if that backseat is important no other item matters - period.
- haven't heard about Volt issues but until it makes it a few more years of course I'll be a bit on edge
- Your #2 isn't valid anymore and depending on State incentives the Volt can even be cheaper !

I'm in MA and like a number of states they've started a rebate giving more to a Volt than a PiP.
Good prices lately :
PiP 28.5 minus 2.5 Fed = 26k net minus our state rebate 1.5 = 24.5 Net
Volt 32.5 minus 7.5 Fed minus 2.5 State = 22.5

I'll add that my Volt came better equipped than my PiP.

 

Here's hoping that the engineers' old habits die hard, but more importantly; any MBA graduate should be smart enough to be aware that Toyota's long-term strategy of building brand-loyalty through reliability, knows it has paid off for them magnificently over the years, propelling them to the top.

To squander that lead by reducing costs, and cashing in on short-term profits, sounds like a trick they'd pull in Detroit, not in Aichi Japan.

 

I had the same question and am still looking for some answers. I did get my first OnStar report for July, the first full month I owned the Volt. It lists me as follows...

Electric Consumption - 29kW-hr/100 miles
Electric Miles: 1,777
Gas Miles: 0
Total Miles: 1,777

Percentage on Electric 100%

While all other numbers can be verified, there is no background information to show me the basis of the Electric Consumption.

I never ran this through the formula to see what my MPGe might be, but it should be 10% or so better than EPA electric only rating since I believe that was based on 33kW-hr/100 miles.

 

Volt reliability has been pretty good. You can see that in the JD Powers and Consumer Reports surveys.

Problems can be either invasive and serious or minor and easily fixed. There have been relatively few invasive problems with the Volt.

A small number of people had steering that was a little sticky in a particular wheel direction and had their steering rack replaced. The rack is made by a supplier with a high quality reputation.

A small number of people developed noisy transmissions that were due to an end bearing retaining cage failing. The failure does not cause permanent damage and it's an easy fix that does not require transmission removal.

A small number of people had cabin heater issues on early 2013 cars due to factory quality assurance problems from a new heater unit supplier. Also a software bug in the heater controller was fixed by a firmware update.

Some people had check engine lights or reduced propulsion warnings due to overly aggressive parameters on self-test firmware. A particular cable connection got slightly damp in heavy rain or undercarriage water splashing that could trigger a warning even though the cable was really operating safely. Coolant level checks on the battery coolant were too eager and the coolant levels were filled a little too low on some cars.

That's mostly it. The 1st and 2nd gen Prius had a similar level of problems and few consider them to be a reliability problem. The 1st gen had problems with shaking steering racks, spurious check engine lights, and failing accelerator pedals (failsafe, fortunately). The 2nd gen had its share of software updates, and water pump failures among other things.

For what it's worth, I've had none of those problems on my Volt (other than routine software updates on a regular service visit) even though my car was built during the 2nd week of initial Volt production back in November 2010 and I have the 8th highest mileage of all the cars on VoltStats.com (91,000 miles). On the other hand, I had all those Prius problems except the steering issue during the first several years that I owned those cars.

Similar things are true for some of Tesla's problems. They just recently said that many of their drive unit replacements due to noise issues turned out to be ultimately caused by a cable slipping out of position along the underbody and vibrating. The fix, once they figured out the problem, was an extra plastic cable tie.

Almost no Volts (or Prius models) have had serious invasive problems like early transmission or engine failures or serious safety flaws.

 

I don't doubt that statement at all, but ask me to choose between a 20-year old Chevy and a 20-year old Toyota, for a drive from Mexico to Alaska, and I'd choose the Toyota in a nano-second.

 

The EPA rating for a 2013 or later Volt is 35 kWh/100 so you are doing about 20% better than EPA. My 2011 Volt was rated 36 kWh/100 and I routinely average around 26 or about 35-40% better than EPA so your number is easily believable.

I have compared my own charging records and records collected from ChargePoint public stations which I use frequently and they closely match the OnStar monthly report number for the same period (within 3%).

Your monthly average of 29 kWh / 100 miles is equivalent to around 116 MPGe.

 

Too bad, more EV ratio couldn't beat your PiP record of 179 MPGe.

I also thought Volt charging loss is 18-19%. Don't use the pre-conditioning feature. It'll waste more electricity and hurt the efficiency.

If it does not include charging loss, you are beating the EPA figure. If there is 18% charging loss to be added, you got 95 MPGe.

Well, just saw JeffN's post that the monthly report seem to include charging loss within 3% accuracy. So, you got closer to 116 MPGe rather than 95.

If the monthly report is within 3% accurate, you can submit that and I'll update the list.

 

will do when I get it - its actually only been 27 days

and thanks for the tip - but I don't pre-condition
Its been pleasant weather and you're talking to a guy who got through winter with just the heated seats...

 

Charging loss is about 10% on a 2013 or later Volt on L2 240v, according to INL. See page 3:

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/EREV/fact2013chevroletvolt.pdf

On my 2011 Volt I seem to see around 14% but it's hard to know. This is consistent with the INL report for the 2011 Volt which show 13-15% charging overhead on page 3:

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/EREV/fact2011chevroletvolt.pdf

On L1 120v the overhead for me is closer to 25%. Not sure about 2013 or later models. Note that 2013 got a better efficiency rating of 98 MPGe EV vs. 94 for 2011-2012 and this be partly to do with charging efficiency improvements. I've never seen national lab style measurement for 2013 Volt charging efficiency at 120v.

 

Thanks @usbseawolf2000 and @Jeff N for the corrected calculations. Feel free to add me as "filler material" to the Volt top 10 if you'd like.

I'll probably go back to my original Trade-In post to give my 6 week, 2500 mile report so as not to clog this post, but I'll summarize and say it has been a positive ownership experience so far.

Thanks for posting that. I was looking to capture that particular PDF file and lost it in my history. I was surprised to see the shape of the Speed vs MPG curve in Charge Sustain mode. I wondered how some of the crazy high MPGcs numbers on Voltstats could be justified, other than playing with Hold mode and terrain. They now look plausible with the curve high point @ 45MPH.

 

I suspect there is a bug in the Voltstats MPGcs lifetime average calculation.

If you compare the top 20 averages to their individual monthly averages the numbers seem suspicious. One possibility is an issue around the handling of monthly averages that are 100% EV. I suspect such "no gas" periods are incorrectly included in the long-term MPGcs average.

Only a handful of the top 20 Voltstats MPGcs seem consistent and plausible. My own MPGcs lifetime average is shown as 43.17 which is consistent since my average has been 45-46 mpg for the last couple of years and I experimented driving in different ways during the first year that drove down my mpg records in OnStar. And, I've never had long stretches of time that are 100% EV.

As you point out, a few people may also have unusual driving patterns that routinely result in driving uphill on EV and downhill in CS. Since Voltstats can't see actual charging data you can't see that in the data by, for example, noting cars with high MPGcs and poor EV efficiency.