Elio Motors Ultra High Mileage Vehicle = 84 MPG for $6800!

Op-Ed: The Elio Motors 3-wheeler Won't Sell | CleanTechnica
(hint)
* The guy's been working on this since 2008
* The guy's promising it'll have "5 star Crash Rating" (DOT doesn't do crash ratings on motorcycles / 3 wheelers)
.

 

i'm not buying it, literally and figuratively. but i wish him all the best.

 

Gas 2 | Bridging the gap between green heads and gear heads.

 

The risk might be greater IF you have a crash but cars crash and kill people 6 times more often than motorcycles do.......taking into consideration only the number of deaths in a given time frame.

And I am a firm believer in two other things:
IF you have the proper experience, training and attitude toward motorcycle riding, you can eliminate most of that extra risk.
And if you eliminate the biker deaths caused by sheer stupidity......stunting, excessive speed, alcohol, etc. the ratio probably would go up to something like 12 to 1.......but that's just a guess of course.

 

What WILL it take to get you to quote the posts that you are replying to ?????

Do you not really understand that we don't really know who the "him" is in a post like this.........or even what the "it" is that you don't agree with ????

Please help us out here.

 

But a given time frame is only one variable. The biggie you are ignoring is the number of cars in relation to the number of motorcycles. There are roughly 26 licensed drivers for every one registered motorcycle in the US. https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1098.pdf Of course there is going to be more fatalities with car crashes than with motorcycles in raw numbers, there is simply a lot more of them on the road. If it were deadlier to be in a car than a motorcycle, there would be 26+ deaths from car crashes for every one with a motorcycle.

"In providing a “Modern Perspective on the Epidemiology and Patterns of Musculoskeletal Motorcycle Injuries,” Dr. Lindsey reviewed the epidemiology, helmet use, and injury patterns of motorcycle accident patients seen at a single Level I Trauma Center. His retrospective analysis of a prospectively collected injury database included all motorcycle injuries for the 10-year period ending Aug. 31, 2008.
...
Dr. Lindsey found that several patients had more than one trauma event during the 10-year period,
...
Dr. Lindsey pointed out that, per vehicle mile travelled in 2007, motorcyclists were about 37 times more likely than passenger car occupants to die in a motor vehicle traffic crash and 9 times more likely to be injured."
Per Miles Traveled, Motorcycles Are Deadlier than Cars

Improving car driver attitude and training, and discounting the stupidity accidents will also improve their odds.

Back to Elio. Low to the ground will make it harder to see, but I drive a bright orange car now, and people still don't see me. It won't be as safe as a car in an accident with another vehicle though. On the other hand, half or slightly more of car crashes in the US involve one car.

 

If driverless cars save lives, where will we get organs? - Fortune

Also, from motorcycle, moped and Elio users.

I pass; NOT for me!

 

Ok, thought I would bring the real numbers up, instead of my quick google.

FARS Encyclopedia


In 2012 4957 motorcycle riders died, 5692 pedestrians and bicyclists killed getting hit by cars (some portion was there fault, but the bulk the drivers). 16,769 driers and 6061 passengers died in the same time period.

Those that want to get rid of motorcycles probably should make bicycling and walking on streets illegal too ;-) The problem is too many cars hit people whether on motorcycles or bikes or simply walking. That doesn't mean we should take away rights from motorcyclists, but.... there is a much bigger risk lacking the visibility and protections of a car. The other factor in rising motorcycle mortality per mile is that there has been a demographic shift. Today most motorcycle riders are over 50 which is a big shift from 20 years ago. It is now a second or third vehicle, and skills and reaction times may be getting worse to avoid collisions.

The elio does offer some of these protections being low to the ground probably will make it harder to see than a standard motorycle. The low seating position of the driver and lack of a center rearview mirror also may make it harder for the driver to avoid a collision. The 5 star safety rating may only be in elio's mind, as they have not crash tested a production model yet, and the vehicle does not require such a test. From the previous article sited above, elio is looking at the government loan program to start production. If the company does not get a government loan, its unlikely that production starts anytime soon. Once production starts we will see if they can produce the beast close to the production numbers.

 

Spend a little more and get a Nissan Versa.

Is you life worth $5,000?

 

Saw a trycle car (classsified as motorcycle here, on the road this a little while ago. It looked like a 1930s race car with an open top, but roll cage (so it protects on head injuries). It looked kind of cool and fun, but we were on a 35 mph stretch of road (lamar down town). I wouldn't trust it on mopac (65 mph highway that often slows to a crawl, 1.5 miles west of where we were).

If the thing looks cooler in real life I can see people buying them. Its definitely safer than a bycicle down town. What I saw looked a lot cooler than the elio pictures. I think what I saw was hand built. Building on a tricycle platform lets you pick and choose the safety and environmental regulations, making development much cheaper.

For the mass market sure a versa or similar inexpensive car like a fit, mazda 3, fiesta, sonic, makes more sense. But lets not just think about the masses, let innovation bloom. My probelem with elio is it likely requires government money to try, and it has a big risk of failure. I don't think the environmental benefits are worth the safety and monetary risk to use public money. Then again it probably is a better use of government resources than hydrogen stations;=)

 

I do not know.
If you're looking at just filling a transportation need.....yeah.
Get an appliance like a Versa, (or a Prius??? )but most Elio riders are probably going to use that vehicle more for recreation than utility, in which case I'd say that they might be living rather than just scratching days off of a calender waiting for the end.

Years in your life or life in your years???

 

I'm not ignoring it, it doesn't make any difference.
CARS still kill more operators than motorcycles........and motorcycles kill more operators than kids tricycles.
It is a simple fact.

The significance of that fact might be debatable but it doesn't change the facts.

 

I don't know why someone hasn't developed a single seat, 4 wheeled automobile. It could be made very lightly, but extremely safe. It's efficiency should be very good either electric or ICE. Pricing could be competitive if operating costs are compared.

Most commuters are single drivers anyway.

 

2 seaters sell poorly compared to 2+2 larger vehicles. If you are looking at efficiency ... a longer vehicle can have lower aerodynamic drag. Therefore there would be no efficiency advantage making the elio a 1 seater versus a 2 seater, but a two seater (1 behind the other) will be more efficient carrying one small driver because of weight.

A 3 wheeled vehicle can be made much lower weight than a 4 wheeled vehicle, so a 3 wheeled 2 seater should be if properely built should be more efficient and more manuverable than a 4 wheeled 1 seater all things being equal.

 

If you are arguing that motorcycles are as safe as cars, it makes a big difference.

Using the numbers Austingreen posted and the ones from the 2009 census data I linked, of the motorcycle drivers, 0.6% of them died in a crash. Of all the car drivers, 0.012% of them died. Include car passenger deaths and it rises to 0.017%. These values ignore the fact that the typical car gets driven twice has many miles in a year as a motorcycle.

If there were as many motorcycles as cars on the road, and using those rates, there would be over 800,000 motorcycle driver deaths a year. Considering some of the deaths were due to cars, a more realistic number would be lower, but still higher than the fatalities of car drivers.

Yes, cars have killed more in raw numbers, but raw numbers don't matter in risk assessment. Dogs kill about 30 people every year in the US. Mountain lions get one per year, and bears average out to half a person per year. Of the three, which one would you rather live with?

It would cost too much once safety and emission regulations are met. Take the Tata Nano. It costs around $2000 new in India. A version legal for European or American roads would end up at $8000 or higher, and it still likely wouldn't considered safe by those consumers.

At best, a 4 wheel single seater will cost as much as the Elio, and be about as efficient. It would probably only be a little safer than the Elio, since it will be making the same trade offs for efficiency and cost. Additional safety features will add cost. They might also add enough weight to reduce efficiency. The legal requirements will make it safer, but at some cost that will make the Elio more attractive for most looking at such vehicles.

The Sonic starts around $12k. This car would win on miles per gallon, but if the price is too close to the Spark, many potential customers will opt for the extra passenger or cargo space.

 

I'm trying to figure out your example. Are these dogs, lions, and bears driving cars or motorcycles?

 

FastStats - Leading Causes of Death

• Heart disease: 596,577
• Cancer: 576,691
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 142,943
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,932
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 126,438
• Alzheimer's disease: 84,974
• Diabetes: 73,831
• Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,826
• Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 45,591
• Intentional self-harm (suicide): 39,518

Motorcycle fatalities are around 5 thousand per year. Yep if you ride a motorcycle the odds are you die of heart disease or cancer. If you die on a motorcycle the odds are that you were hit by a car, truck, or SUV. We need to understand the proper statistics.

A new prius is safer than a old corolla which is safer than a new motorcycle, but... vehicle fatalities are low compared to some other things. Vehicle fatalities (dieing by getting hit or operating a motor vehicle is about 25% of all accident fatalities), I think number one is falling in the batthroom.

 

That's only because geezers have to go to the bathroom pretty much every day, and sometimes they actually make it there.

Statistics are funny.
Somebody told me once that if you have one foot in a pot of boiling water and the other encased in dry ice that you're statistically comfortable.....

 

AGs list is correct, but it can be used to draw goofy conclusions like he has.

One problem is that 70-90 percent of medical death before old age is related to hypertension, tobacco, diet, alcohol, and obesity. None of these causes of death are random and cannot be treated as such statistically. Think Vegan on a motorcycle.

The other main problem is that the list is not normalized to the at risk population.

 

I've been driving for 55 years (gasp).

I've seen 4 bad accidents unfold right in front of me. One just yesterday.

2 involved motorcycles. One the cyclists driver fatal error, one a schoolbus driver's error.

Friend just got back from a 2k ride from NC to FL and then road a mile towards a local store. Completely in the right, stone sober, mid afternoon and 10MPH below the speed limit but a car pulled in front of him out of a parking lot across 3 lanes. He went down to prevent a collision (with a helmet on). Hospital bill was for $1.2 million not counting 6 months of rehab and that also didn't include the life flight helo ride for $50k. Bill to repaint bike, $350.

I think I want more around me than a cycle or one of these little cars.