GM releases some teasers for Volt 2.0

means absolutely nothing. gm is investing in a halo car, not a mainstream wannabe. i do lump toyota in with the others though, but at least they are up 1-0.

 

Did you miss the part where they mention the plant was being upgraded for 2 other cars besides the Volt?

Toyota is up but I don't know for how long. At least in this respect. People are jumping the Prius ship left and right as new vehicles from other manufacturers enter the market. Hopefully the Gen 4 and the FCV turn out cool and dispel the negative stigma that comes with owning a Prius. It will be good for everyone if they do.

 

One of the 2 other cars is likely the Cadillac CT6 which will have a PHEV engine option although details are unclear whether this will be Voltec-based or something new and different:

Cadillac CT6 Will be Lighter than CTS, Offer 70-MPGe PHEV Variant

I'm not sure what the other car would be but I suppose the future 200-mile EV is a possibility.

 

That would be my guess as well. Thanks for the link to the CT6.

 

Any word on if the next Prius phv is getting those, or the Accord phv, or the Energi?
It isn't going to be heavier than an Equinox, so you need other points to bash?

If the future 200 mile EV turns out to be the Sonic EV, wouldn't it make more sense to build that at the Sonic plant?

2017 Chevrolet Sonic EV: More Electric-Car Details Trickle Out

 

maybe they just want it to be a big shock.

when gm comes out with a 200 mile malibu ev for 30k, then i'll be a believer.

 

The rumor is voltec will go in a CUV, a small 5 seater, possibly like the equinox or something new updated competing with the cr-v, escape, rav4, c-max market. The power and range of the new system might be fine as is (efficiency will go down a little in the heavier less aero package), but perhaps a awd option is needed for the segment. Again this is just a rumor but 4 of those cars us currently outselling the prius. It is probably a good segment for phev, but the outlander phev will come to america in the segment at the end of next year. That outlander blew away the japanese plug-in market. The voltec system seems more refined, and gm's cuvs sell better than mitsubishi's suvs, but gm may need to get awd working to fully expand the market.

Well it does kind of kill the argument that gm would abandon voltec technology by 2013 and therefore gm is losing $30,000 per vehicle, and that no body will ever buy the volt.. They seemed to improve the car marginally in just about every way

Better acceleration (20% at low speeds), greater ev range (10%+?), More efficient on electricity(5%-12%), more efficient on gas (5%+) with a lower nvh when ice is running, lighter, easier to deploy 110 cord. All this for the same or fewer dollars.

Things people have asked about but probably aren't in the car - Seating for 5 adults in the back seat, 6.6kw L2 charger. Rainbows and puppy dogs. GM made it sound like these would not happen, but we need to wait until January to be sure.

I agree with you that this does not sound like the killer upgrade from prius gen I to gen II. It probably is enough to reduce sales of the Gen I, then have the gen II outsell the leaf in the US, well at least until the leaf has its gen II upgrade.

Remember the plug-in program is not about 1 car, just like the mti hybrid program wasn't about 1 car.
We may get that better than prius upgrade from tesla in the model 3, or from a nissan or ford plug in, or even from a much improved prius phv, or different gm vehicle.

 

I think we're missing the real competition, the Leaf and possibly the Jetta diesel, which in numbers have been kickin' the Volt in sales volume:


I need to put the data in a table AFTER we get real specs but my impression:

1. Toyota Prius C - competition in size, not in capital dollars.
2. Nissan Leaf - competition in size and capital dollars.
3. Toyota Prius V - no competition in size.
4. Jetta Diesel - competition in size and capital dollars (?)
5. Sonata - ??
6. Toyota Camry Hybrid - no competition in size
7. Ford Fusion Hybrid - no competition in size.
8. Passat Diesel - no competition in size.
9. Avalon Hybrid - no competition in size.

Bob Wilson

 

Leaf and volt have traded first and second place for awhile. The volt still has sold more in the US. The leaf is ahead recenty. These anouncements should slow sales of the volt as people wait for the better model, so leaf may catch up, before the gen II pushed volt in the lead again.

IMHO the prius c and v don't compete with the volt. The c is for people that want something cheaper than the prius, the prius v who want something bigger than a prius. These people are not in the market for a volt at all. Now the volt has taken sales from the liftback and prius phv. The liftback isn't a direct competitor though. It is part of the market.

Now you have a bunch of midsize 4 door sedan hybrids, these do compete a litle but its on the fringe. The sales the volt was taking from this segment are now most likely going to the fusion energi. That car is a volt competitor that has been gaining plug-in market share.

The jetta tdi and avalon hybrid, I doubt vw, toyota, or gm considers the volt or any combination competition. Avalon is much larger and skews much older. The tdi seems completely different segment than initial adopters of high tech plug-ins.

 

Good points, but one thought stands out. You have two very different groups to evaluate. Those that bought Volts and those that did not buy Volts. These two groups would have very different reasons for buying/not buying a Volt.

I would put greater value on the information of what made the buyers buy instead of why the non-buyers did not.

Specifically, not having a 5th seat sounds like a reason not to buy a Volt, but if the Volt had a 5th seat I'm willing to bet the vast majority of non-buyers would shift to a different reason for not buying. A reason like "too small" to seat five people adequately even with a 5th seat. In these cases it is not important what is the first reason is for not buying, but ALL reasons for not buying. That rejection list may be very long with the 5th seat addition not actually increasing sales much.

Correspondingly, the buyers obviously valued something critical to pay extra for a smaller and non-inexpensive car. It would be highly likely that "more" of this critical value should pay off greatly. Things like 5o mile EV range would have to have a huge payoff if it was the 40 mile EV range that managed to capture the present Volt buyers.

 

Not '. . . high tech . . .' and an instant image flashed to mind:


Bob Wilson

 

I'll give you a moldy old survey from about the time the prius crossed the chasm into the early majority.
http://www.cmu.edu/gdi/docs/diesel-and.pdf

VW seems to believe this is still true, which is why they are bringing out hybrids and plug-ins for those that want them. Diesel cars are such a small segment there is no reason for toyota or gm to go after it with plug-ins or hybrids.

 

Austin pretty much covered but as a Volt owner I would not agree with your assessment. I did not consider the Leaf or the Jetta. The Leaf cannot adequately cover my range needs and the Jetta TDi is well, a diesel. You don't get the fun of electric drive. Size and efficiency are only part of the list of reasons people choose cars.

 

If you're bored watch this review on the Fusion Energi by Alex on Autos. This guy does excellent in depth reviews and gets quite a bit right compared to most reviewers. In this video he makes a lot of comparisons to the Fusion, Accord and Volt. He basically says that the Volt is sort of by itself as there are no direct competition and the i3 Rex is the closest.

 

Seriously? When did the iPad become so incompatible with PriusChat? I can't copy URLs or post images. Jeez! I keep having to resort to using my Android phone.

 

No problem about 'other factors.' Tuesday I saw a 'Prius Sport' at Costco and briefly thought 'those are nice wheels except they would have higher aerodynamic drag.' The spokes looked like air handler impellers, another way to suck energy BUT they did look nice. Apparently the old Toyota 'cute-mericials' followed that approach:


While driving around this evening, I realized a plug-in analysis needs two tables, EV and gas modes. But blending them becomes a technical challenge. The issue being how to integrate "charge" and "refuel" times into a credible model. I don't have all the model figured out, yet, but it appears to be solvable.

Bob Wilson

 

The large majority of drivers have never driven a non-plug Prius much less a full powered electric car. They just don't 'get' that it is a much more pleasant and relaxing (or exciting...) driving experience.

 

Exactly!

It's really hard to go back to gas once you are seduced by the smooth torque of electric drive. Until people have experienced this in their daily driving I don't think they can understand the difference. It's why people pay gobs of money for high end luxury cars. They want quiet smooth power.