prius phv world wide sales

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by austingreen, Oct 30, 2014.

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  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    well heck, bring on the tax credits! might have to wait until 2020 tho...
     
    #81 bisco, Nov 5, 2014
  2. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The tax credits are here today, but may easily have run out completely by 2020. They are capped at 200,000/manufacturer and 1M total.

    The prius phv was delayed last until the end of 2016, still time for the credits, but toyota will probably not get the full 200,000. I they delay some more there will be fewer and fewer credits.
     
    #82 austingreen, Nov 5, 2014
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Prius PHV was designed without dependency on subsidies. It has a lucrative non-plug model to sustain high-volume production, reducing both cost & risk. That's proving to be worthwhile already too. With the price of gas dropping below $3 per gallon and the cost of oil expected to remain low for years to come, it makes you wonder how the one-size-fits-all offerings will be promoted.

    Flexibility like that is very important, yet it continues to be dismissed as unnecessary. A basic principle of good business is having product diversity. Sadly, the gamble was made by some automakers that gas would remain expensive. It didn't. This is why we must take entire market into consideration. Looking at just plug-in offerings is a form of denial.

    Like it or not, plugging in will continue to be a tough sell. Election results from yesterday reinforce the support for increasing domestic fuel efforts, consequently keeping gas prices down. There is very little, sadly almost non-existent, support for the rollout of public chargers. The challenge to even stir effort in interest in efficiency will remain daunting. Blah.
     
    #83 john1701a, Nov 5, 2014
  4. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    John if it actually satified the market without subsidies, it should do great with $5000 in texas. Of course toyota was in the room when they wrote the subsidies, and they did say they couldn't sell many plug-ins without subsidy.

    Either way both of us would like toyota to sell more plug-ins. It isn't worth worrying about what the design goals were way back when. I think they need to get dealers trained in other states if the next gen phv is going to sell well after subsidies end.
     
    #84 austingreen, Nov 5, 2014
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I make a comment about the future. You spin it to imply I meant the past.

    Yup, you definitely enjoy debate.
     
    #85 john1701a, Nov 5, 2014
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    BS John. I am simply calling you on your BS. Sell the thing if it was designed in the past to sell without subsidies. you have subsidies. Sell the hell out of it. That certainly was a backward looking not a forward looking statement on your part. you are fixated that if subsidies would end toyota would do batter with plug-ins? No they wouldn't.

    I don't enjoy you misrepresenting my words.
     
    #86 austingreen, Nov 5, 2014
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  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    It was well known right from the start the tax-credits would not expire until sometime in the middle of the next-generation.

    We all know design won't fundamentally change when a next-generation is rolled out. It cannot, since that would make it a new design rather than the incremental improvement the term "generation" represents.

    That means it must already carry those flexibility characteristics for the next to take advantage of them.
     
    #87 john1701a, Nov 5, 2014
  8. bisco

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    you won't get more ev range, fuel economy, interior space and accessories at the current tax credits.
     
    #88 bisco, Nov 5, 2014
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I said that interior space was not on the rumored list.

    Why won't you get more ev range and better gasoline fuel economy without a price increase at current tax rates? 7 kwh likely will cost around $400/kwh or $3000 in 2017 when the next gen will sell. The current tax credits are more than that. Toyota needs to give dealers a profit, and provide for waranty costs, but why should dealers make a bigger profit with a 4kwh battery than with a 7kwh battery that is an easier sell? I don't get why other cost savings on motors, inverters, etc couldn't cover the waranty costs. No reason price needs to go up unless demand is high enough that they can't keep production up. Toyota does do better with carb credits and cafe for every one they sell.
     
    #89 austingreen, Nov 5, 2014
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you can get more ev miles and fuel economy, how much more is the big question mark.
     
    #90 bisco, Nov 5, 2014
  11. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Toyota is saying 10% better fuel economy on the gas only gen IV prius. You add weight and you should drop that down, maybe to 52 mpg epa for a plug-in. I really have no idea if toyota has even decided the size of the new battery. As an owner how big would you want it? The california polls say much bigger, but they didn't ask about cutting into cargo volume.
     
    #91 austingreen, Nov 5, 2014
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    personally, 15 miles would be perfect for me, but i understand ev range is very subjective. i don't know how mfg.'s go about making that decision. i get a lot of survey's from nissan about battery size. my hope for the next pip is a complete ground up redo to make room for the battery and a spare. i'm not holding my breath though. i don't see toyota focused on msrp though, it seems their m.o. is to price it a little high and use incentives as necessary.
     
    #92 bisco, Nov 5, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2014
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  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    If the kwh/liter increased 20% like it did on the volt, you could have a 6kwh battery in a space 13% bigger which should be easy on a redesign. That should give you 15 mile blended range in charge depletion with just a few drops of gasoline. I think they will do better, but doubt it will be over 10 kwh as it would be hard to find that much volume, and I doubt they have advanced kwh/l that much.
     
    #93 austingreen, Nov 5, 2014
  14. bisco

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    agreed. the bigger question is, what will it take to bring in more buyers. this goes back to greg's posit. you can't have your cake and eat it too, at least not until battery prices come way down, and charging times also. it may be that a phev gets there before a bev for the average buyer, because a combo of gas and ev maybe cheaper and easier to pull off.
     
    #94 bisco, Nov 5, 2014
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