A petition to Toyota to build electric vehicles

Just send them the list of PriusChat members who have ditched their Toyotas for an BEV or PHEV.

 

if toy thought they could sell as many bev's as prius, at similar profit, they would build one in a heartbeat.

 

So, Hill, you want Toyota to produce a Leaf-like EV? If they did, do you think 25k in US will buy the Leaf and another 25k will buy the Toyota per year? Or would Toyota's end up selling in laughable numbers like the -

Focus EV, iMiEV, FitEV, and many more ...

You want Toyota to build their hybrid lineup and do an EV too, right?

And what's all this 'disdain' about FCEVs? I saw a bus in Berkeley with a huge 'Hydrogen Fuel Cell EV' sign all over it. Are there BEV buses around?

 

I don't know on what basis you were asking this, but yes there are. There are a about a dozen new ones in a city near me with Government incentives to provide more. At least until the price drops. They've even got the first double decker BEV bus.

 

I like Toyota and the Prius. I have a 2012 Prius Plug In. Had fun with the 10-14 EV range, but wanted more. Why wait for the Gen 4 with maybe double the EV mileage? Other manufacturers are already on point. I decided not to wait for promises. Other EV choices are available now. My current daily driver is a 2014 BMW i3 BEV, 100% EV, with real 85 - 100 range. And the price was mid $45k, less with a 2.5 year lease.

 

Until someone does I call BS on traditional car manufacturers being serious about BEV's. They want to keep them restricted so as to not take sales off their petrol/diesel lineup.

It is said a Leaf battery costs £6,000 and takes the £21,000 Leaf a realistic 100 miles. Increase that pack by 50% and you have a £9,000 battery that takes the Leaf a realistic 150 miles. That extra £3,000 makes a £21,000 car a £24,000 car (the theory relates to $'s).

Is that just too simplistic? There is plenty of room available to add 50% more cells, so why not? The car then becomes very usable and the old tale of 100 miles being more than adequate starts to collapse as people are happy to buy the Tesla with a 300 mile range.

 

agreed. it's all about cost right now. the people buying tesla are willing to fork it over. it's a relatively small group and tesla can't make them fast enough, even in that small a quantity. as zythryn says, prices will come down, but the time frame is unpredictable.

 

let's say that toyota could produce a camry with 150 mile range for 30k. how many are they going to sell? look at the hycam, the numbers are underwhelming.

 

Did we lose you Don in Va? Still have the PiP?
Yes I think many BEV/PHEV owners started with Prius.

 

I got a "literal" comment from a person the other day who does that on a regular basis. There was no point in even bothering to mention that though. The point is the business. That reference to "door" and "knock" was the larger market, not the literal.

Cost is a major factor. It's easy to see Toyota embracing lithium when it becomes competitive. In the meantime, we have the NiMH patents expiring. I see that as a golden opportunity to push traditional vehicles out of the spotlight with regular hybrids. That will open the door for plug-in vehicles. Think about the misconceptions that still persist. The plug-ins have all of those for hybrids, plus quite a number of their own.

I still hear the "didn't know it could go that fast" and "when you have to replace the battery" comments on a regular basis. Fortunately, those are far easier to deal with than in the past and the audience is much wider, but the real-world exposure for plug-in vehicles is quite lacking.

We want more than just automaker offerings. We want them to be affordable and produced in high-volume too. People tend to forget about that part. That's the bigger challenge.

 

So you think there's much potential in NiMh once the patents expire? Why the shift in Europe for Toyota using Li-ion in their non plug ins?

Can NiMh be used as a plug in hybrid with cost benefits or is the tech mainly suited to traditional hybrid? I know the early RAV4's were NiMh but they were slow if I recall.

 

Signed the petition. Sure it's not really going to make much difference, but now they can't claim "no one asked us to build EV's".

Honestly, I'd be happy with a plug-in prius that had 25-30 mile ev range, and was available for sale nationwide instead of the East/West Coast only.

For now I'm waiting to see what the Gen 4 prius, and the gen 2 PiP will be like, and if they're not that much more awesomer than the Gen 3, or the PiP v. 2.0 is only available in 15 states again, I'm getting the gen 2 volt, or maybe just wait for the Tesla Model 3. I can live with approx. 50 mile ev range (would cover my work commute even w/o charging at work which I currently don't have anyway), and a built in range extender for those longer trips. Plus I hear the Volt is more comfy/fun to drive/quieter, so let's see what the next Prius offers.

 

Exactly, Toyota did make EV cars and no one wanted them to buy at the cost.

EV cars will be in a high demand when gas prices are sky high (assuming electricity cost stays low, not sure how).

 

I grew up watching The Absent Minded Professor and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang....

I'm holding out for the petition for the flying cars.

 

They made an EQ that had the same range and price as a volt, but less room, worse accleration, and no ice for range extending. Smartly they killed that in the cradle.

They made a Rav4 EV that they rushed to market, that had some reliability issues. When price was anounced it was shockingly high, and they seemed from the start not to want to sell it. Everyone thinks they have made money on the full project, despite the cries of no one wants the car. I am not even including tesla stock appreciation there, simply the value of things learned by toyota plus value of the zev credits are probably much higher than R&D and variable losses on the car. Still IMHO the real reason they killed the Rav4 EV instead of ugrading it to work with something upgraded like the lexus nx, is it would be embaressing for toyota to sell more rav4 evs than mirai fcv after all the EV bashing.

Wouldn't you have said the same thing about hybrids in 1999?

 

Yes, but the sky high gas prices haven't materialized and the peak oil turned out to be incorrect (thanks to the cracking boom). I bet gas prices are cheaper now than 2000 (corrected for inflation).

 

You are absolutely right about peak oil, peak oil really is peak demand and we have hit it because of demand not supply. You would be wrong about price though
InflationData: Historical Oil Prices Chart
In inflastion adjusted terms 2000 oil prices were $40/bbl. Oil prices have fallen to $78.65, just a little less than double peak 2000 prices. Average inflation adjusted oil prices are more than double in 2014 than 2000. We are bellow the inflation adjusted peaks in 1979 and 2008.


by the way, that war in Iraq that our government said was over, the president just asked for anouther $5.5B and double the number of troops. I guess these troops won't be wearing boots because we are supposed to have no boots on the ground. The reason really isn't terrorism, although its there, its to protect the iraqi oil, and to prevent ISIS from profiting from the iraqi and sysrian oil. Yep endless oil war.

 

How do you figure? Isn't gas equivalent to $7.50 / US gal in UK, or thereabouts?

Are BEV's in 'high demand' in UK? I doubt it. Are 'lower cost' EVs in high demand anywhere on the planet?
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Tesla is super smart: Build a drop dead gorgeous sedan with stunning performance and 250 mi usable range. Who wouldn't want one if able?

People have instincts and intuition: They want desirable, attractive things if they can get it (i.e. Tesla)

Most, not all, do NOT want goofy looking, odd looking out of the ordinary cars that cost a extra and are more boring (iMiEV an extreme example of that, Leaf is odd looking)

 

Honda sales manager told me the other night - "all our cars have low emissions, the only thing you're saving with a hybrid or plug-in hybrid is gasoline". Betya most dealers don't push alternatives.

Most people are perfectly willing to spend $1200 a year on gas. Many spend that on their mobile phone plans, $100 / mo.

So, they go buy these -

Or they drive less (due to endless diaper changes and runs to school and store) and buy these to protect their children -

 

yep, we're in the minority around here.