A petition to Toyota to build electric vehicles

In the 70s mechanics commonly took the pollution controls off cars because they ran so poorly with them. Mine did from a '70 BMW 2002a.

Performance enthusiasts today are still doing that as they flash their ECUs and remove their catalysts in the quest for bragging rights over 10 more horsepower. Go to any performance car forum and it is amazing the number who think that bigger is better and damn the environment. Also amazing how they struggle to get a car running reasonably after they do all this expensive stuff. I've seen attempts at $200 per horsepower.

 

Do you think they discovered too many problems with the latest RAV4 EV or they projected too many potential failures with BEVs or a higher than acceptable failure rate that could affect their brand?

It's just strange they've gone from the forefront of the technology with the original gen1 RAV4 EV back in 1997, then the original Prius due to patent issues and then taking things to further. Either they know something we don't, or they have something ground breaking under wraps, or they've had a change of leadership that just doesn't see a place for BEV's.

Maybe they're just so big and complacent, which is always a danger. The UK equivalent of Walmart, a company called Tesco, once took 1 in 7 of all £'s spent in the UK, yet now their market share is collapsing, their share price cut by half and falling and the brand has become toxic. The reasons why are difficult to explain but complacency seems up there. Could it happen to Toyota?

£1 in every seven now spent in Tesco - Telegraph

Tesco Meltdown Debt Default Risk Could Trigger a Financial Crisis in Early 2015 :: The Market Oracle :: Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting Free Website

 

Toyota seems to be hitching their wagon to hydrogen and using electric only to reach the CARB mandated numbers.
In the US the 2nd gen Rav4EV only sold in California. AFAIK, the PiP only sells in select CARB states.

They are very proud, and rightfully so, of their hybrid technology. They built up and still have a large lead in that realm. They are holding onto it dearly and seem to have lost the drive to move forward.

 

We know for certain that Toyota has been working hard to deliver a higher efficiency engine and improving controllers & software for the next Prius, while at the same time striving to lower cost. We also know their goal is to significantly increase their hybrid sales.

Too bad that isn't considered a move forward.

Put another way, they aren't going after the low-hanging fruit.

 

looking at honda's ev offering's, one has to wonder why toyota is taking so much heat.

 

Its simple, they are leading the anti-ev pr. In fact I have only heard it from toyota and fiat, and fiat isn't pulling the car off the sales floor.

 

The Fit EV was lease only, and available in more than one state. So the bet was against Honda sticking with EVs from the beginning, but they may have actually done some research on the data they got from those leased Fits. I think the Clarity was available in a public lease research program before the Fit EV. With the increased incentives available FCVs in Japan and California, I think it would be surprising if Honda ditched their FCV for an EV.

Honda is also a smaller car company than Toyota. They haven't said much one way or the other on EVs or FCVs. They might be more focused on their new generation of hybrids and repairing their reputation there.

 

We know this because you assume as much?
I've seen precious little about the gen4 Prius and nothing from Toyota on the Gen 2 PiP.
Last I heard, the PiP would be rolled out nationwide in the summer of 2013.

Not rolling it out nationwide seems more like a step backwards than a step forward.

 

I suggest you read my thread about Toyota UK falling out of love with the Prius. That doesn't reflect any of what you've said above.

Sure they have locally built hybrids, but pricing them as premium options isn't going to help sales - and isn't; even in a country of $7.50 a US gallon (it's come down lately) they're not flying off the shelves. Pricing the base Prius more than the base Lexus ct200h just confirms it to me.

Toyota are sitting on their laurels, or sitting on their hands, or have their head up their arse. Describe it as you like, but since about 2011 they seem to have become very blase about their hybrids. Now Honda are pulling their hybrids over here, Toyota have just given up on them too, or so it seems.

I could be persuaded otherwise IF the gen4 (gen2 PIP) is a game changer.

 

Sounds like a plan for success. Toyota could keep the spare tire, leave the charge port where it's at, but provide enough batteries for a solid 100 mile everyday range. Development cost wouldn't be much. Toyota are you listening?

 

It's unfortunate having to wait has been interpretted as giving up.

Delaying their next step, as unpleasant as that may be, is still a sensible business move.

 

Nothing to do with waiting at all. I know it was a long, drawn out thread, but it's worth a read from the beginning.

 

What was learned from that thread?

It makes no sense investing in a current model struggling to compete when you have an improved one on the way, especially with an unstable market.

 

Then I look forward to the elusive gen4 with interest.

 

you'll be lucky if they even sell them over there. probably have to buy a grey market.

 

Wasn't that the reason for not rolling out the current Prius PHV in the US? But that was back when we thought the next Prius would have be unveiled soon. That has been pushed back a year, and the next PHV will come a year after the next Prius. What's the reason for not expanding the PHV market now?

 

We've already been through this, just recently... economy, patents, and other rollouts.

 

Petitions are for getting the attention of officials. Toyota, like any other business, relies on market research, not petitions to make their decisions.

 

Petition is over 800

excuses, excesses, excesses. Sure if it was rumored to be coming out early 2015, delay of a nationwide rollout seemed pragmatic to outsiders. But when you have a giant anti-ev campaign, and delay until end of 2016, and 0 states added after initial roll out? Toyota certainly has not said they will even be nation wide with any plug-in, since they killed the roll-out last year. They have said no one is asking for them (plug-in cars). They need to speak up for phevs if they are for them, and cut this anti-plug-in PR!

I guess there are only around 800 signatures on the petition in a few days. oopsie. Perhaps people have asked for them, but toyota's dog ate the market research. That is what the thread is about. I didn't sign it, because well, I don't really care anymore if they support them. I just would like them to stop being dishonest about plug-ins.

No one outside people who work for companies that can profit from fcv, has asked for one. Can toyota show 5 signatures on that petition? Isn't that what this is all about. The lexus advertisement with an bmw i3 rex, with the fueling door removed in post production. The monthly anti-plug-in pr plants. If Toyota were to add just florida and texas to the phv, wouldn't it be embarrassing to the fcv pr marketing machine at toyota if only one of those states bought more Toyota plug-ins in 2015 than toyota sold fuel cell vehicles in the whole world?

 

The devil is in the details.

What specifically are they actually requesting?