murai fuel cell gets a video and plans for other states.

I think that's an incorrect statement.

I believe the lithium ion batteries in BEVs and PHEVs will typically lose both power and energy capacity as they age. They will not necessarily do so by the same amounts.

These changes are seen in laboratory testing but we don't have much long term experience with automotive lithium batteries yet. I know there have been some studies on Tesla Roadster energy capacity loss but I don't know if the power loss has been studied carefully.

For example, the battery in a 2011 Volt was tested over a 6-7 month period with starting mileage of about 8,000 and an ending mileage of about 24,000 (15,000 miles during the test period). During that time, the measured energy capacity loss was 2% but the power discharge capacity loss was 13%.

See the last page of this INL study:

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/EREV/battery2011volt0815.pdf

Now, I don't really believe that power loss statistic but at least they are measuring it and it differs from the energy capacity loss. The numbers will be more believable as they are duplicated on multiple cars and during longer operating periods and distances.

 

"Toyota’s relatively compact, power-dense 370-cell solid polymer electrolyte fuel cell stack resides beneath the front passenger seats. Toyota has defied conventional engineering wisdom by devising a fuel cell design that does away with a humidifier, something previously considered necessary. It’s also still at work to reduce approximately 40 grams of required platinum used to convert hydrogen and air to electricity, and is researching less costly replacements for the precious metal."

2016 Toyota Mirai FCV First Drive – Video - HybridCars.com

 

'still at work' and 'researching' is okay for fcv, but oh dear, we can't wait any longer for a 300 mile ev that cost 30k.

 

And what is the capacity of the HV battery in the Mirai? And how much would that cost? And potentially how far could it power the car if that same battery were used in a BEV?

 

Just like any other gasser - CNN or petrol.

you mean us West coast folks?
.

 

The battery is 1.6kWh NiMH battery similar to the one in the Camry hybrid. The cost to Toyota should low considering that. As for EV only range, it is only going to be a mile or two at low speeds.

A plug in FCV would mean a larger pack, but it likely would need a smaller fuel cell. Overall, that should cost less to build. The space for the battery, fuel cell, and fuel tanks is probably the biggest hurdle.

 

Thanks for that.

I'm sure I heard that the battery powered the car for a longer period and/or was used whilst the fuel cell warmed up. Whereas with a 1.6 kwh it must just be for minor boosts or when immediately started etc.

 

I think the battery can used to directly heat the fuel cell on start up.
Because of the way fuel cells operate, and even if programmed, I think the Mirai is more likely to start will a fully charged pack in comparison to a hybrid.

 

I found the fuel cell units:
Horizon Fuel Cell Technologies



Bob Wilson

 

only $136 with shipping from Amazon dotcom.

Reviews are only 2 out of 5 stars. So it truly is a 1/400th version of the hydrogen car ... just like the auto version ... for that much money you can buy a lot of batteries.

 

Except, it appears to be using metal hydride to contain the hydrogen. So, it might be a little better than the current FCVs. Perhaps CARB can buy us all the home electrolisyst unit to refill the hydrogen cells for our cell phones.

 

Silicon Valley Auto Show - Toyota Mirai FCV

 

that is a beautiful automobile.

 

It looks better in that photo than in the action shots used in most publications. No hiding the jet intake though.

This all reminds me of the first gen Tiburon a friend had. His may have been a year or so newer than this.


Same color though. Which is important, because the blue was okay. In any other color the car was hideous.

 

While it sounds like a bit of a daunting engineering challenge, hydrogen can also be burned in internal combustion engines, therefore, a hybrid flex-fuel vehicle is a theoretical possibility. Such a vehicle could make use of gasoline, hydrogen or electricity, utilizing it in whichever way is most efficient.

 

Artist rendition of FCV bought in Huntsville Alabama:

After all, no need to let the tires rot while waiting for the H{2} station to open.

Bob Wilson

 

I'm waiting for this myself: