1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Slew of new mirai articles

Discussion in 'Fuel Cell Vehicles' started by austingreen, Dec 15, 2014.

  1. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,997
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Mirai is based on Toyota Sai hybrid (Lexus HS 250h). Prius c and Civic are not good comparisons.

    About 1/3 of all Volt miles are driven on gasoline. You have to ask if $7,500 tax credit for it is subsidizing the 37 MPG gas engine. It is clear to me it should not get the same incentive as a BEV.

    Volt also has the tax payer bailout dollar and the charging station install incentive ($1,500?).

    That is irrelevant. Toyota's chart for well-to-wheel was based on Japanese test, as noted. You read it incorrectly and claimed they exaggerated.

    UCS article said it is even more efficient for H2 production (80% vs 67%). It needs to be updated, especially when we have the EPA figure for vehicle efficiency.

    I was shocked to find out H2 from Coal is the cleanest of all other fuels (non-renewables). It is due to carbon capture (before it emit) made possible easily.

    My home is air sealed and insulated as much as possible for a 1920 house. Last month utility bill (gas and electric) was $268. Thermostat programmed at 70 deg F for 18 hours and 68F 6 hours (night). It also includes PiP charging.

    Cogeneration with CHP is better than waiting for grid to get cleaner.

    You can get at least 50% efficiency for generating electricity (vs 33% from grid) at home and you also get to use waste heat for hot water and furnace.

    Fuel cell CHPs has majority of the market now. In Japan, they have smaller size (ENE-FARM) that fits in a small apartment. I could use one (or two) of those at my home and put it near the kitchen and the bathroom to minimize hot water pipe length. Since it doesn't make noise, it doesn't have to be in the basement.
     
    #121 usbseawolf2000, Jan 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  2. ftl

    ftl Explicator

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    1,812
    790
    0
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Carbon capture and sequestration is far from 'easy,' and it is very expensive. It cannot compete with PV or wind, and so far as I know, there is zero reason to think it can compete in the future.

    Regarding homes, I was not talking about yours. My point was that investing in a NG economy to heat future homes is silly. Future homes should be built along PassivHaus standards so that net-zero is financially competitive with the old polluting way.

    A home that is non-polluting and built for the same lifetime cost as a polluting home is the no-brainer future. Only American idiots ask about ROI. The profit is the reduction in pollution.
     
    usbseawolf2000 likes this.
  4. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,997
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Watch him say he changed his mind in this interview.

     
  5. ftl

    ftl Explicator

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    1,812
    790
    0
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    Here's everything Toyota will give you if you buy the hydrogen-powered Mirai | PCWorld
    1. Free fuel for three years
    2. Free rental program for one week per year
    3. 24/7 concierge service
    Bonus feature! The Mirai can power your house. No, really it can.
    The other reason these perks will be nice is that the Mirai will not be cheap. It will have an MSRP of $57,500. The three-year lease will cost $499 with a down payment of $3,649. The Mirai comes with an 8-year, 100,000-mile warranty.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,123
    11,561
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Many current homes in the North East are using oil for heating. Some even burn coal at the home for heat. Our former apartment, and others use resistant electric heat.

    When I say use natural gas for heating, I mean expanding pipelines so those existing homes can use it. Improving the insulation is a first step. Switching the NG or geothermal heat pumps is the next. Tieing into a gas line is much more financially feasible for households than the latter if there is a gasline. Which makes it more likely to happen.

    CO2 sequestering in hydrogen reforming is straight forward, but that doesn't make it cheap. It has to be transported to the sequestering site. Be it an oil well or some porous rock strata.
    1. Because California doesn't allow hydrogen stations to charge for the hydrogen yet. There has been plenty of time to set a standard for doing so, but hasn't happened.
    2. I think it is Fiat that does the same with their BEV. At least one company does so.
    3. I thought this was something that most higher priced luxury cars get.
    Emergency power is a great perk, but it is something DIYers have been doing with hybrids and even straight ICE cars for years. It is a factory option on the Japanese PPI. Is there a 'roadside' hydrogen refilling system in place in the event emergency power is needed longer than a tank will last. I realize they should just fill up before running out, but that requires that the stations are able to run. Several gasoline stations were out after Sandy here.
     
    ftl likes this.
  7. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    5,602
    3,779
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,912
    49,492
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    hogwash. for another bad read, go down 10 stories below the toyota fuel cell the the article on why tesla will fail.
     
    austingreen likes this.
  9. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    5,602
    3,779
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Well the Tesla item was an opinion piece. And you know what they say about opinions...... :whistle:
     
  10. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,574
    4,114
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    California is going to have one mobil hydrogen refueler, but I doubt it will get to many cars in a power outage. Stations need electriicty to run compressors, so they will all be down unless the station has an emergency generator. You best wait in line for hours for a full tank before a potential emergency.