First Hyundai now BMW. Ditching Fuel Cell Vehicles

Yes - I understand that even vw's ev is available in 10 or 12 states;
2015 VW e-Golf | Volkswagen

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If I made billions on petroleum, I'd probably be trying to derail alternate energy sources as well.

Good thing I'm not that person. Hell sounds hard to get used to.

 

Toyota Mirai Hydrogen FCV selling like hot cakes

 

+1

Didn't realize that the government bought only 1500 hot cakes and was willing to wait over a year to be served What a dumb dumb headline.

It is kind of a strange thing. First you brag about how well this thing will sell, then you release projections that are far bellow anyones expectations. I don't think anyone thinks 600 fuel cell cars for private leases, and 900 to the goverment is a huge number, compare it to the number 3 selling prius. It is less than 1% of prius sales last year in Japan. Porsche sold out of the 918 limited production run of 918 phevs sold 100% to consumers starting @$845,000.
2014 (Full Year) Japan: Best-Selling Car Models

But good for toyota. If they choose to produce them, they can do a trial of 600 private, and 900 government fuel cell cars. If they want to claim this is a high number, then no need for more US subsidies to test the tech

 

Strange spin - 1st the claim is "1,500 sold" ... then it's admitted 60% were government purchased. Heck - the U.S. military became famous for buying toilets seats for over $600;
$37 screws, a $7,622 coffee maker, $640 toilet seats; : suppliers to our military just won't be oversold - Los Angeles Times
So - if we waste money - why shouldn't the Japanese gubment pay way too much for transportation.
Yea - hot cakes. Truth is stranger than fiction.

 

Based on the ads I've seen, Toyota's not pushing it's advantages hard enough. The ads all seem to be focused on "how it feels." Yuck.

 

Such numbers mean very little to most of us. For the automaker, their threshold number is based on their financial plan, which we know little about.

 

The Japanese government spent about 7.23 billion yen to get those FCVs on the road. Or a little over $62 million.

 

No it is much higher than that.
Japan’s METI to Request 30 Billion Yen for Hydrogen Supply System for Fuel Cell Vehicles
30 billion yen or about $260M based on today's strong dollar and weak yen. Of course if Honda and Toyota sell more the Abe government will provide more money.

Those cars have 2 million yen bonus in all of japan, and 3 million yen in achi province. Just the cash if 40% go where the big money is for 1400 vehicles is about $29M, but they are spending hundreds of million of dollars for hydrogen infratructure no matter if any cars show up at all. The goverment also gives japanese companies R&D money for fcv. $62M would be really cheap;-) That is why I do a palm plant when toyota claims these orders (not sales) are higher than expected. How many cars did they think they would sell when they sold the government on 30 billion yen for hydrogen? If the only 5000 vehicles are run in Japan, between direct subsidies and infrastructure the Japanese government will have spent $74,000 for vehicle, not counting the tens of thousands more for R&D. You would think they expect at least 30,000 fcv for that infrastructure investment. 1400 is a start, but its not way over expectations, it is bellow many peoples expectations for all that government money.

 

6:45 this morning one of the exec's pulled up with this;



If our company hadn't had it pushed on us, we'd just as soon push it off the end of a peer. It's an MB the rest of the world will likely never see - and likely MB will be following BMW & Hyundai's lead. Just thought folks might enjoy the Pic for novelty's sake

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Precisely. Why is it shocking that the government would order so many after building the refueling the stations? How many are California agencies going to buy or lease?

 

Toyota has about $60B in cash (figure reported march 2014). GM spent about $2.5B on fuel cells, I would guess toyota has spent $2B so far although they are tight lipped about the figure and how much they have been reimbursed by MITI then METI.

If toyota sells 30,000 mirai at $60,000 (7 million yen japanese price before government money) that amounts to $1.8B which is less than they have probably spent on R&D, not counting the $168 they say they are spending to get production up to 2100 cars per year. I expect at 7 million yen they lose money on every one not counting any R&D or warranty costs.

At 3000 cars a year it would take 10 years to get to 30,000 cars. Toyota has very patient money, but there is no way 1500 is a high number. It is just a game of them trying to low ball an estimate so they can pretend a disappointing number far exceeds expectations.

 

Toyota Delivers First Mirai
Good video for those interested.
Justin Bieber gets a 2012 Fisker Karma for his birthday (Video) - Torque News

For a blast from the past, here is the beeb getting his karma. They had 3000 preorders for the car at the time. Leo Decaprio, Al Gore, and Colin Powell got the first ones, no bribes to those currently in office

 

Life is sweet for those who have sworn to serve the public interest.

 

If you accidently smear a little butter on your glasses, the "-" looks like a "U" and the "E" becomes a "K".

Bob Wilson

 

and an A before the two L's.

 

I'm beginning to think the fuel cells for Toyota is just a head turner and not a real plan for success. I think they'll pin success on the next gen prius line and ns4

Who makes the pip batteries ? LG goes with chevy, is it Panasonic with toyota ? Somehow chevy is able to bring up a high energy density 200 mile bolt to be competitive with a model 3 and yet tesla will have that gigafactory ? Industry of ev hhas promise and I think toy is hiding to throw everyone off

Ppl will be more impressed after doubting toy

 

chevy hasn't actually done it yet, toyota likes to talk after the game is over, not before it begins.

 

High temperature, ceramic fuel cells are multi-fuel compatible and free from high-pressure hydrogen but operating in the 900C range. These make a lot of sense for base power operation and if made small enough, transportation. Some of the published announcements in 2011 suggested that smaller, 650C fuel cells were on the cusp of release . . . it is now three years later.

Sad to say, these patent protected devices are not commercially available. There are prototypes and demos but not a part anyone can order.

Bob Wilson

 

What good are hotcakes when you can't put syrup on them right now.