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Strange brake situation...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Dino33ca, Feb 14, 2015.

  1. Dino33ca

    Dino33ca Member

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    My '04 with 212k kms went in for a brake inspection two days ago. Our local dealership charges $25 for an inspection. The car has never had the front brakes done and they're still at 80%! The back brakes were first done at 135K kms but only the shoes, the drums were left. Now I was told, after inspection, that the shoes are still good at 3 mm, but the drums have to be replaced by summer. They also said that one of the brake assemblies in the back could not be inspected as if it were taken apart it would 'spill out like sphagetti'. I'm under the impression that the drums should have been replaced at 135k with the shoes and I would not have this repair to look forward to.

    So, fast forward to tonight. I was turning slowly through an intersection when I heard scraping sounds followed by the wheel completely seizing. I drove the car out of the intersection leaving a 'skid mark' behind the seized wheel. I took the wheel off and inspected the hub assembly, and could not see anything wrong. I then drove backwards and the wheel completely loosened and everything was fine. I drove for another mile or two and the same thing happened again. Once again, I drove backwards and loosened it up. I have since driven several miles including highway driving and the wheel is working completely normal, no strange sounds at all.

    Just though I'd share this. I wish the first owner of the car had replaced the drums with the shoes and this problem wouldn't have happened.

    I'm going to take it to the dealership tomorrow. If I can't get them to look at it do you think it's safe or okay to drive the car the way it is? Could I possibly damage things even more?

    Thanks in advance...
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    It is a waste of time for you to wish that the prior owner should have performed a repair. It didn't happen and you have the responsibility and burden to deal with the current situation. You'd might as well wish for an end to world hunger or poverty. The effect will be the same - nothing will happen as a result of the wish.

    It is not OK or safe to drive a car where a wheel might lock up at any time. Maybe there is something wrong with the parking brake mechanism.

    I don't understand the assertion that a brake assembly could not be inspected. The inspection process is simple: remove the brake drum, and look at the exposed brake shoes and wheel cylinder mechanism. If something was going to 'spill out' then the car certainly should have been immediately repaired, instead of allowing you to drive away.

    I don't understand the assertion that the drums have to be replaced by summer. What is wrong with the drums? If they truly have a fault then they should be immediately replaced. What is the purpose of waiting 6 months?

    It is really easy to replace the brake drums. After the wheels are removed, the old drums literally can be pulled off by hand, and new ones installed. In the event that a drum is rusted in place, two 8 mm bolts can be screwed into the two threaded holes in the drum, to force the drum off.

    To provide another data point, my 2004 has logged 190K miles and the rear brake shoes and drums are original equipment. Usually the rear brakes experience very little wear because 1) regen braking on the front axle bears most of the braking load when the car is at speed, and 2) the front disc brakes bear the residual braking effort when the car is moving slowly. The rear brakes are mostly there to serve as a parking brake.
     
    #2 Patrick Wong, Feb 14, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it is a known issue in snow and salt climates that the rear drums and etc. may need service early on in the cars life. i suggest reading some of the threads here, and then servicing your car accordingly. all the best!(y)
     
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  4. 69shovlhed

    69shovlhed Surly tree hugger

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    whoever told you they couldn't inspect one of the rear brakes was a complete idiot. the technician was a complete idiot too. the rear brake locking sounds like one of the springs broke or wasn't installed correctly. regarding brake drums, if your not getting a pulsation or vibration or something from an out of round drum, there's no need to replace them. if they have been resurfaced to the point of being oversized you would also need to replace them, but I doubt they would be oversized after a single brake job. and how would they know the drum was oversized if they never pulled it? find a good, honest shop and get those brakes inspected asap!
     
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  5. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Hmm. Since they would have had to remove the drum to make any sort of assessment including whether they couldn't inspect it because of some other issue, I think that statement provides proof that they already did this and found a serious problem. More likely, they probably caused a serious problem when they did this and are trying to cover it up by telling you they couldn't inspect it.
     
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  6. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Clearly what you are describing IS NOT by any stretch of the imagination a safe driving situation. So no, NOT SAFE.

    You have a wheel seizing up. Evidently seized up tight enough to cause a skid mark, and that was at a slow speed.

    Since you are not 100% sure what is causing the seizing, you can't be 100% sure it won't happen again. But driving a vehicle with a questionable braking system, and where a wheel is seizing is not safe.

    From what you describe? There is no way I would of done anything but call a tow truck. Several miles including highway driving? What would of happened had the wheel seized up at high speed?

    There are repair scenarios that allow for planning, budgeting and driving the vehicle into the repair shop. Then there are repair scenarios that just immediately need to be addressed. IMO brake issues and wheel/suspension are the latter.

    I wouldn't drive it at all.
     
  7. Dino33ca

    Dino33ca Member

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    Ok, so to conclude this thread... Thanks for all of your replies! I found an independent mechanic working out of his own home. He said the springs in the rear passenger side brake assembly broke. He believed this happened when the dealership tried to pry off the drum in order to inspect the assembly. He confirmed what Toyota said that 'it would fall out like a plate of spaghetti' this is because the 'insides' of the drum come out if the drum is forced off with a pry bar and they are sticking to the drum or are corroded. Instead of put in new drums this mechanic had them professionally machined. Said they weren't in bad shape just had to be machined. He said I saved a hundred bucks for new drums, which I don't understand because the drums don't seem to expensive online in the U.S. at least, maybe they're more expensive up here. He put in new shoes and a spring assembly, cleaned all four brakes, and away I go. $4oo in total. Toyota dealership was going to charge me $534 total not including a spring assembly which costs about $35 up here. I got a one year guarantee and she seems to be driving perfectly fine, very smooth, no noises anywhere. If there was a lesson to be learned here it would be to replace or machine the drums when you install new shoes. Thanks again for the help!
     
  8. Dino33ca

    Dino33ca Member

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    I should also note, when I got the price quote from Toyota they said they had to look it up because rear brake jobs were so rare for a Prius. Is there something in the brake or regeneration system that can be adjusted or conformed that would effect the amount of useage the back brakes receive? Or was it simply corrosion that this car has experienced with needing rear brakes at 135k kms and now 212k kms....
     
  9. 69shovlhed

    69shovlhed Surly tree hugger

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    if the first brake job had been done right, you wouldn't have needed the second brake job. unless the springs were damaged by an incompetent mechanic that when he couldn't remove the drum easily, he pried the hell out of it instead of simply backing the adjuster off like your supposed to do if the drum won't let go of the shoes.
    my '04 did get new shoes at about 85k miles, but the only thing I could see that might have been wrong with them, they were a different shade of gray than the new shoes I bought from toyota. they certainly were not even close to worn out. I suspect the previous owner had been suckered with the "clean and adjust" scam and they had cleaned the shoes with the wrong chemical. the reason I bought new shoes was because the rear brakes sounded like they were metal to metal sometimes when I braked. I was very surprised when I pulled the drums and saw that the old shoes were nearly as thick as the new ones.
    frankly, I wonder if you even needed brakes the first time; thief mechanics will sell brakes when not needed cause its easy money.
     
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  10. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Hmm. Now how did I guess :)
     
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  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    congrats on a good outcome. i suppose you might consider pulling the drums and inspecting every 5k with tire rotate.
     
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  12. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I'm also glad this reached a safe and complete resolution.

    And for some reason I'm hungry for spaghetti...
     
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