Why Can't Other Plug-In Hybrids Copy Chevy Volt's All-Electric Running?

Yes, I feel very safe in the guess that plugin vehicles will exceed the market share of hybrids.
Regardless of gas prices, BEVs and PHEVs that are not blended, will reach 3% market share in less time than it took hybrids to reach 3% market share.

In addition, PHEVs (non blended) + BEVs market share will surpass the market share of hybrids soon after that.

I don't know if this will happen in 2 years or 15. If I had to select, I would say in 3-5 years.

 

I can't access that link while at work but the "New standard MPG" the 4th gen Prius will set, personally doesn't matter to me since I will only be using the gasoline engine once a year in my Volt. As I've said before MPG doesn't mean anything at all when your primary fuel is not gas. For instance, my real life mileage, I drive 10000 miles per year average, if I don't charge on my entire round trip out of state that's 400 miles on gas. 400mi / 40mpg = 10 gallons of gas for the trip (at today's prices $25). The rest is electricity, so that means my "40mpg volt" gets 10000 miles / 10 gallons = 1000MPG for the year and I've spent $25 on gas for the year.

That's a lot of money in my pocket, not funding terrorists or big oil. I'm also not at the mercy of the gas price swings, don't have to visit dirty germ ridden gas stations constantly, not to mention the cost savings on maintenance when you barely use the gas engine. The 60MPG new standard Prius doesn't even register on my radar, it's being left behind by better tech.

 

The weight reduction is for the 2016 Volt so I'm not sure why you are quoting 2015 Volt interior specs to make your point. We have detailed interior specs for the 2016 Volt now but I don't think GM has published an overall EPA-calcułated interior space number yet.

These cars are complex combinations of engineering tradeoffs that have to be carefully balanced against each other to find the best possible overall result. The engineers get to customize some aspects precisely for the car they are designing but other aspects are constrained by the need to reuse existing components for cost reasons.

Toyota has reached a pinnacle of engineering the Prius for efficiency and continues to incrementally refine and improve it. Others are seeking to catch up. Honda seems to have done an excellent job with their Honda Accord Hybrid redesign. Others are still lagging in various ways or seem to have placed more focus on performance.

The 2016 Volt has gone through a lot of re-engineering to incrementally refine its overall balance but with a unique focus on EV range and with some apparent focus on performance. It's closest feature competitor is from the Ford Energi models.

The new Volt will have about the same overall performance in hybrid mode as the Energi design (0-60 mph in ~8.5 seconds) but will be better performance in city driving (0-30 mph 2.6 vs 3.1 seconds) and much better in EV (8.4 vs ~15 seconds). The Volt will have 8% better projected combined EPA mpg (41 vs 38), weigh less (3,550 vs ~3,800), but have 2.6x the EV range (50 vs 19). The Volt's EV efficiency is significantly better at 102 mpge (achieving USB's triple digit test) than the 88 mpge of the Energi. The Volt will also probably be the same or cheaper to buy after credits.

There are now some other ~20 mile PHEV plugins available but I know less about them. Apparently there will be a 2016 Hyundai Sonata PHEV that will be around 93 mpge EV and about 40 mpg hybrid. I don't know the weight, pricing, performance numbers.

 

Better tech would produce better CS MPG.
Larger battery is matter of quantity, not better tech.

And you would be better off without a ICE under the hood. But it was your choice.

That's different. the earlier post you wrote "electric". Please mind that.

 

See below where it is heading (from here):



Range can be increased by increasing H2 tank size or tank pressure, also by improving efficiency of FC Stack and Synergy Drive.

10A outlets are everywhere but you need dedicated 15A outdoor plugs to be able to charge. That reduces the numbers greatly.

Then you need logistic (plus payment?) to charge. Even with apps (Plugshare) installed, I have yet to charge outside my home (and family).

They are available but are they usable, is a different story.

SuperChargers are more usable but you need Tesla vehicle with prepaid fee to charge there. Those are limited in infrastructure for now.

They are not fuel economy. They are gas consumption. Completely different with bi-fuel vehicles like plugin.

In the context of charge sustain mode, we are talking about gas fuel economy without electricity mixed to boost the results.

As I expected, it is not enough to see success like Prius Gen2 did.

No 5th seat (4+1 doesn't count), no spare tire, still a compact car. I don't see how it could be a mainstream model once the tax incentive is gone.

 

That is why I clarified, I wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing.
Those are, imo, the same. Cars that have an electric motor drivetrain are "electric".
Those I believe will surpass hybrids.

Sorry for any initial confusion, that's why I wanted to spell it out in my response.

 

Is PiP included, I suppose?

 

The Lthium Ion battery cells used in the prius PHEV and Ford Energi models are about 112-125 Wh per kg. The 2011 Volt cells are about 142 Wh per kg and have been improved in 2013 and 2015. The 2016 Volt cells are estimated to be 180-185 Wh per kg. The actual volume of the 2016 Volt battery pack is slightly smaller than the 2011-2015 packs but the EPA EV range has gone from 35 to 50 miles. Improved EV efficiency from 95 MPGe to 102 MPGe helped as well together with a small increase in the usable state of charge window due to improved battery cycling longevity.

 

Exactly. The volt is designed with most of the old input on the EV 1. That was that 2 seats was too few, but 4 were OK. The T-shaped battery came out of that. Gen I owners seemed to ask for more charge depletion range and a child seat area in the back, and this went into the gen II. I doubt they are losing that many customers by not having 15 more cubic feet. Still the 2+2 design is limiting sales.

The solution has to be to put the voltec ideas into a larger vehicle also. There are rumors that they may, but we don't know yet. mitsubishi will start exporting their larger outlander phev to the US next year.

Improved tech has reduced cost, size, and weight of batteries, so larger batteries are the result of improved technology.

I'm not sure why you would say he would be better off without an ice? There are those choices. i3 with or without ice to see real impact but more expensive than the volt. leaf or focus ev but that likely wouldn't give him enough range. Tesla S with enough range, but much more expensive.

 

The better tech I'm referring too is the electric motor and drive train, along with better tech leading to bigger and lighter batteries, and without the ICE under the hood I would not be able to make my out of state trip, or any emergency trips where my range is not sufficient (like the three trips to ohio i took when my dad got sick and then passed away later that year.) There is no charging infrastructure where my out of state destination is located so a pure BEV will not work for me at this time, other wise I would be waiting on the Bolt and still wouldn't get another Prius.

And yes the Tesla Model S is just too expensive, I wouldn't spend that much on a car even if I was rich.

 

you'd be surprised how many RV parks there are along your route, with 240v hookups. Many allow you to use their hookups for free - or for a nominal fee. Just saying, it's not a question of whether folks can charge up, it's a question of whether folks want to.

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I have the Rav4EV. You would not see me charging up along any long trip. The amount of time wasted getting the charged up is not worth the amount of gas money and car rental (if needed) saved. Imagine 14 hours to go 250 miles.

Main reason? Try sitting at one place with a 2 and 5 yrs old in the back. I did that for 15 minutes on local trips in route and I could not stand the complaints and crying/nagging.

 

Plugins make a good conversation topic but in practice it is not, well, practical.

 

Of all the plugin designs. Volt is nice, but I really like the i3 REX design concept better (European version that is). Does not need a large ICE going around town, and have large enough range to go beyond commuting in one charge. Run the REX in parallel to get decent range to be able to do some shorter road trips.

Unless you have a BEV not named Tesla, you will not say plugins are not practical though. And I have the longest range BEV not named Tesla.

 

Some in here believe everyone should go for plug-in bevs, even if you live in this part of the country!

 

Plugins are practical for many. For others they aren't.
You can't say a car is or is not practical without also identifying a particular person's driving habits.

 

Could a BEV satisfy 90% of my trip needs? Yes. But that would mean for the 10% I'd have to plan around the availability of the other car, the other car would have to be of a different size/configuration, and/or I'd have to be willing to spend hours doing nothing waiting for a charge.

Try telling the three kids in the back seat to just wait an hour and we can get going to the Disney show. Or we can't go to the beach because you and all your stuff won't fit. Oh, BTW, there isn't a charging station attached to the arena or at the motel we are staying at (true at my two most common destinations). Nor at any McDonald's we might stop at for potty breaks or food along the way.

Let me know when an alternative fuel vehicle can get me going in 15 minutes for another 150 miles and I'll be interested. And the refueling has to be widely available. I don't live in CA nor am I limited to driving routes where there is a charging station every 50 miles. Nor do I want to spend $130k to buy a car. I could, I won't.

The 2015 or 2016 Volt, no room.
The Tesla, $$$$
The Leaf, no room/range.

Every car is a compromise between cost, efficiency, capacity, fun, NVH, etc.

My choice isn't right for everyone, it only has to be right for me.

 

Absolutely!
I just want to stress that no car works for everyone. Be it gas, electric, hydrogen, natural gas, etc.
When anyone makes a statement that car X is not practical, that needs to be quantified.

 

Here, here, bartender, get this man a drink on me.

Down with boring, soulless cars, boooooo,

Meaning if the Prius Plug-in was sold in all 50 states, they would sell a lot of them (more than the Volt)?

 

Edit: misread the post but I'll let my opinion on the PIP stand *shrugs*

The plug in Prius is an excruciatingly limited version of electric drive and it still drives like a Prius, it has none of the advantages of electric drive and all of the downsides of being a built for gas mileage hybrid. There is no instant torque from the electric motors, it's artificially limited in the name of efficiency, the engine kicks on every time you try to do any kind of more than moderate acceleration, or pass a set speed, and the battery is empty in anywhere from 0-10 miles. It's nothing but a regular Prius with a slightly bigger battery to play with. Plenty of practicality, but still no fun at all.