Why Can't Other Plug-In Hybrids Copy Chevy Volt's All-Electric Running?

This is what GM has said:

2016 Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid Borrows Some Volt Technology

That is a direct quote from a GM press release on the 2016 Malibu. You seem to want to believe that the Malibu uses a clone of the one-mode Toyota HSD transmission to get the mpg that is 10% better than the Camry hybrid. It doesn't. It uses a 2016 Volt transmission.

We know from an interview with a GM engineer in another article that they modified at least one of the motors to optimize it for the Malibu. Most likely they downsized the bigger motor slightly to optimize its torque vs rpm efficiency map sweet spots for the Malibu configuration. They also likely removed a one-way clutch that is only needed for big battery EREVs like the Volt that have enough battery-only power to drive both motors together with the gas engine off under hard acceleration.

Here's an article that extensively quotes GM engineer Daryl Wilson, who is said to be the lead development engineer for the hybrid Malibu. He talks about the Malibu having the 2016 Volt transmission's separate city vs highway eCVT modes among many other details:

Here’s Why The 2016 Malibu Hybrid Could Launch GM’s New Hybrid Era - HybridCars.com

The only article available (still!) that really goes into the details of GM's new transmission design is this one that I wrote back on February 20:

Gen 2 Volt Transmission Operating Modes Explained

I'm hoping there will be a good MotorTrend or Car & Driver article on the new transmission design in the next 2-3 months.

 

A grid tied system will have a meter to measure how much goes into the grid and comes from it. If the home's net energy use in zero or negative, then the home's electric use was carbon free. The excess electric it produced during the day would displace electric use that would otherwise have come from a carbon based fuel. Displace enough GHG that way, and the GHG from any charging at night can be negated, or even become carbon negative.

Japan is also a smaller country with a different culture. New car turn over is higher than in the US due to inspection fees and taxes increasing with vehicle age. Its to incentivize the purchase of new vehicles to support the domestic market. Then car owners have $8 a gallon gasoline to consider. They don't need as high as an incentive to get people to switch to hybrids. They also have incentives for plugins.

The Volt and Tesla S now sell in similar numbers, and Nissan's commitment to BEVs means they build manufacturing in country to avoid taxes and currency differences that might make the Leaf expensive.

Has its on issues and discussed else where. Compared to electric infrastructure, infancy is a bit overstated. You don't want plugins sold where the grid will have them emit more GHG than a small segment of cars sold, but they at least can be driven there.

And Congress over road him shortly after at request of the FCV lobby.

And the Volt and Leaf have both sold at least 60k each during that time. To get those FCV's down to a price competitive to them when they first arrived will take a $20,000 tax credit.

But it takes 3 to 4 times as much renewable electric to make enough hydrogen to power a FCV the same distance as a plugin.

That is a problem for a BEV, but not an issue for a PHV.

 

You are missing a couple of facts:
EVs only emit more than an efficient ICE car and then only in some states. The net effect, TODAY, is a reduction. IMO. But the point of the incentives is to drive the cost down so that in 5-10 years the technology can be made widespread...reducing emissions everywhere and costing less.
If we wait 10 years until the grid is clean enough everywhere, by your standards, then it will take another 5 or 10 years to improve the technology and reliability and get the costs down.

Mike

 

Again, Hydrogen is not a fuel.
It is a means to transport energy.
Exactly like electricity is.
The infrastructure is in place to transport clean energy to any place with an electrical outlet, TODAY.

 

For me and mine, personally, I need the hybrid. I need the ability to have the gas and use the electric - each benefitting each other. Not everyone has charging capabilities at home or even nearby. Not everyone wants to spend $50 at the gas pump, weekly, either. I get plenty of pick up and go in my Prius and I have the option to drive using EV, both, or gas only. I love my Prius and getting 250,000 miles or more out of it beats the Volt hands down for me. I would like to see Chevy get 300,000 miles and then I will weigh my options.

 

From USA Today:

General Motors is halting production of the Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric car to clear out an unsold backlog and to prepare the factory to build the 2016 replacement Volt that goes into production in July and should be at dealerships in September.

The factory, which straddles the city limits of Detroit and Hamtramck, quits making the current Volt in May.

Volt sales the first quarter this year are just less than half what they were a year earlier. All of last year, Volt sales were down 19% from the previous year, according to Autodata. . . .​

Bob Wilson

​

 

not sure why you bothered to say this - as it is patently untrue -
Yes, you can actually know if your PV system is on, because PV Inverters have little 'ON' lights on them .... so yes, you do know that they are on. Why would you actually state otherwise, as fact? You must realize, when you say such things, you lose credibility.
As to PV meters, you don't HAVE to have a PV meter, but yes, you CAN have a Meter .... in fact many OCD folks DO meter their PV data ... even thru smart phones. We choose to simply check the difference between the utility draw, and our excess ... and our utility - via their website shows that data daily ... if we're OCD enough to check it out .... so IOW, best to not say stuff as fact, if you don't know if it is true or not.
.

 

Which coincides with the announcement of the Gen II Volt. Some are waiting for the new car, some are waiting for the bargains on the Gen I.

 

Summer gas prices could be cheapest since 2009

 

Wow - DejaVu - last time gm products backed up - they hid 'em on the back parking lots of the Hyatt Hotel ;



Back then, it was the fuel guzzlers - now its the fuel sippers
.

 

In Victoria Australia our electricity is 80% brown coal (and brown coal is 30% worse than black coal) so people state that Corrolla is better for the environment than a Leaf. We all have the option of purchasing green power 10, 50 or 100 and get charged up to an additional $0.07/kWh for the privilege. Here are my two trains of thought;

1. I know it's dictatorial but what about forcing owners of EV's / PHEV's / EREV's to purchase a percentage green power based on there vehicle. This would stop all the arguments in this thread. ie more AER is better.

2. I've read somewhere that it isn't efficient for the power stations to spool down overnight, hence off-peak rates. If I charge overnight aren't I only using 'wasted' electricity anyway? ie more AER is better.

 

228,296mi and counting.
Volt Stats: Details for Volt #2012-07353 (sparkie)

 

Yes, if producing a Next Gen vehicle in the same factory as the current generation vehicle, all manufacturers need to shut down during the retooling period.

With the promise of direct fuel injection, atkinson cycle and a 5 mode transaxle the Gen 2 Volt should get much better highway fuel efficiency. ( For my personal usage this is the only time I am burning gas.)
The EPA fuel numbers have not been released yet. But in anticipation of the G2 Volt I bailed on my '13 Volt.
Here's the last screen shot from the phone app:


Note: Almost half the EV miles are free after charging at work during the day. (The car was parked facing east, hence the sun heated right side tires.) The gas miles were mostly highway speeds on vacations and airport runs, usually in the 38 mpg range, usually at +5 mph the posted, sometimes this is 80 mph!!

COST per MILE. That's what it's all about.
Prius nerds: ignore the 'Lifetime MPG' number. It does not tell you anything. It is not related to Cost per Mile.Plus a module got replaced and this number was reset at one point. I have no use for this number.

The Volt is gone. Can't wait for the Next Gen Volt !! Must resist the urge to be the first in line....
I have an interim car while waiting for the release of the 2016 Volt.

Here's an image of my commute home yesterday, no hyper-nonsense, at the posted speeds:
(Prius fanbois, read'em and weep. And guess the car !!)

 

We've already revisited this as well. Chu ONLY reconsidered hydrogen because of natural gas predictions of over production - which the industry loves to promise - to get more & more investors. That's simply not the case ... which of course is starting to sound like a broken record, I realize .... ;

Could fracking boom peter out sooner than DOE expects?

We'd have to be utter morons to build a refueling infrastructure that simply blows thru a limited resource. Fracking is NOT going to last for 100 years, as the oily industry first promised. Hopefully this will be the last time we have to revisit this fallacy.
.

 

http://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/b24f8db4-e55a-4deb-a0b3-32cf763a5dab/files/national-greenhouse-accounts-factors-2014.pdf
OK looked up Victoria, australia co2E/kwh and it appears that the avarge plug-in car (104 mpge) would produce about the same ghg emissions as a 25 mpg gasoline car. See this thread for ghg discussion
Net effects of green energy and old coal on new electrical demand | PriusChat

No it wouldn't, even on this thread. There are those here that don't want to credit green energy to those that buy it, ans would still use the electricity on the grid which is one of the most green house gas intense..

But worse it would be entirely counter productive. It would label plug-in cars only good for reducing ghg, making people forget that they help in energy security, and likely will be chosen by more outside japan than hybrids. The government policies stand in the way of cleaning the grid in victoria. They have chosen to use local high ghg coal, that is too expensive to transport outside the region. This protects mining jobs, at the expense of the enviroment. The region has plenty of natural gas, and it could be used to greatly reduce ghg on the local grid. Drop coal to 55% of electrity, and build more ccgt to replace it., and unhealthy SO2, Nox, mercury and particulates would drop 35% or more, while ghg emissions would drop 20% and it would do little to the cost of electricity. The government has also adopted anti-wind policies, which could be added much more cheaply with pro wind policies. No requireing plug-ins to buy green energy will do nothing but slow their adoption in melbourne, unless the government adopts some greener grid policies. No focussing on cars will not reduce pollution in victoria, but you can clean up the grid without worrying about the plug-ins.

Yes absolutely true, but in victoria the grid is set up so badly that adding plug-ins won't really help.

 

Bailed out early, concerned about depreciation, inventory backlog, expected leased Volts in the used car market this year?

Ok, so what are we going to bragg about now until the next Volt? Guessing motorcycle Speedo!

Chevrolet Volt Resale Prices | GM Authority

 

Worse in what way? Is it just carbon emissions, or also other ones?
I want to see coal use drop, not because of carbon dioxide, but to reduce the mercury and radioactive isotope(you get exposed to more radiation within 50 miles of a coal plant than a nuclear one) emissions. Natural gas is a win/win.
As to the Corolla, for like comparison to the Leaf, the upstream emissions of getting, making, and distributing the gasoline need to be accounted for.

At this stage, I don't many need to forced. For the others, why not also force people using air conditioning to also buy green power?
In the US, the older coal plants are getting closed, and that push started before plugins. Then in places with carbon heavy grids, a plugin likely results in less CO2 emitted than the average new vehicle sold here.
I can't speak for other countries, but I think using incentives to get individuals and companies to build more renewable energy would result in more actually getting built than forcing plugin owners to buy green energy off the grid.

Yes, for some types of power plants this true. They get used for the base load of the grid, and they 'idle' at night for the lighter electric use, and to avoid potential problems with shutting down completely and then restarting. Shifting electric use to night, like EV charging, can lead to these plants running at a load that is more efficient than the idle rate.

 

Now is the electron guzzlers.

 

Its always nice to read the mainstream media accentuate the negative and bury the positive. No this is not as bad as the Consumer reports shouting not recommended for the prius c, and screaming hybrids don't get epa mileage, but it is in the same vein of catering to those that hate efficient cars.

GM To End Current Production Chevrolet Volt In May - As Planned

What we have is a technology story. The new one is a lot better than the old one, but it isn't ready to be shipped. The new one not only will be better and less expensive for customers, but it will be more profitable for the company. Customers want to wait and the company wants them to wait. The company has botched roll outs before, so maybe september runs into problems and is really november. Dealers are fickle though and want that old model on the lots. GM is providing about 6 months of inventory (would have been 3 months without the announcement of the new one) for a 5 month window. If gen II is late, than its smart, they don't leave dealers without cars. If gen II is early gm eats the cost and probally looses $6000/car compared to the gen II, or about $9M if there are 1500 cars left when the deep discounting begins. Not much money for gm, but oh the horror of this inventory to USA today.

I don't get this at all. I would think gm, not the dealers take the hit, but we have winny gm dealers like congressman Mike Kelly that wants bigger tax money to go to oil companies (its good for america according to him) but the volt is the Obama car and must be bashed at all times. Mr. Kelly has been quoted on tv news and newspaper articles over 100 times putting out false negative stories about the volt.

Yes I think gm will lose money on the leases, just as toyota lost money on the first gen prius. These losses were expected not unexpected. Many were accounted for at the time of the lease. High residuals allowed gm to offer low lease rates and get another negotiation to sell a new car when the lease ran out. You know, typical car dealer games.

 

<GROAN>Not just 'austingreen', just that discussing our rides and 'ghg emissions' assumes the buyer has any knowledge of global warming, much less an affirmative belief it is a risk that needs addressing when buying a car. In reality, there is a good reason for displacing pollution from high population density, urban areas. That alone justifies city-dwellers getting a plug-in. Of course this could be a clever marketing scheme to get global warming deniers to buy plug-ins.

Tell the car shoppers living in dirty, coal fired states that a plug-in has the same effect as a Hummer ... "Poke a hippy, climate scientist and buy our coal powered plug-in."

I grew up in Oklahoma and depending upon the wind direction could often tell I was approaching a refinery:




Oil refineries concentrate the production emissions in islands typically away from large urban areas. In a similar fashion, coal-fired power plants tend to anchor a plume away from population centers. This is a good thing especially when particulate capture and ash ponds keep it local:

Keep things in perspective. Plug-in/EVs are less than 1% of the new car sales and really only available since 2012. Meanwhile, there are hundreds of homes within half-mile of a typical residence, many there for decades consuming coal-powered electricity. Increase the radius and businesses are included.

I appreciate those who erect solar arrays, a home well, and septic field. Living off the grid, is a good thing. However, 'ghg emissions' and our cars ... the scale is so wrong ... smaller than a mote.

Bob Wilson