Why Can't Other Plug-In Hybrids Copy Chevy Volt's All-Electric Running?

>All of above. Get while the gettin's good.
>>No brag, just the facts, ma'ma. Tech talk, facts and figures. This is an amazing thread right now because of it!!
It's a car. Had the AC on initially during that commute!!

Right!? And those pesky electrons are incredibly cheap,,, for some. COST PER MILE, yo... ($0.025/mi.)
The future can not be denied !
Remember the last time you stood out in the cold at the quick trip sending $$ to OPEC? I don't.
(But my future will have me doing just that for a while....misosad...)

 

Gas was 99 cents a gallon too. Use energy responsibly.

 

$$ goes to Canada; Company Level Imports

So your future of free electricity can not be denied!

 

Crude is global commodity, though. If US consumption of gasoline stays high, then the price that countries that don't like the US can get for their oil will be high.

 

QUOTE="austingreen, post: 2165796, member: 58508"]http://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/b24f8db4-e55a-4deb-a0b3-32cf763a5dab/files/national-greenhouse-accounts-factors-2014.pdf
OK looked up Victoria, australia co2E/kwh and it appears that the avarge plug-in car (104 mpge) would produce about the same ghg emissions as a 25 mpg gasoline car. See this thread for ghg discussion
Net effects of green energy and old coal on new electrical demand | PriusChat



No it wouldn't, even on this thread. There are those here that don't want to credit green energy to those that buy it, ans would still use the electricity on the grid which is one of the most green house gas intense..

But worse it would be entirely counter productive. It would label plug-in cars only good for reducing ghg, making people forget that they help in energy security, and likely will be chosen by more outside japan than hybrids. The government policies stand in the way of cleaning the grid in victoria. They have chosen to use local high ghg coal, that is too expensive to transport outside the region. This protects mining jobs, at the expense of the enviroment. The region has plenty of natural gas, and it could be used to greatly reduce ghg on the local grid. Drop coal to 55% of electrity, and build more ccgt to replace it., and unhealthy SO2, Nox, mercury and particulates would drop 35% or more, while ghg emissions would drop 20% and it would do little to the cost of electricity. The government has also adopted anti-wind policies, which could be added much more cheaply with pro wind policies. No requireing plug-ins to buy green energy will do nothing but slow their adoption in melbourne, unless the government adopts some greener grid policies. No focussing on cars will not reduce pollution in victoria, but you can clean up the grid without worrying about the plug-ins.


Yes absolutely true, but in victoria the grid is set up so badly that adding plug-ins won't really help.[/QUOTE]

Wow Austingreen, you know more about our grid than I do. Thanks for the information. I attended a conference and John Boesel gave a comparison of California and Australia as the GDP anf population are similar. Frankly it was embarrassing. We are 10-15 years behind.

Presentations \\ The Cars of Tomorrow

 

I guess you can travel with only with another person on board.

Weep for the 3rd gen of that car!

 

What do you mean? I should start hypermiling an EV so I can achieve 2.3 instead of 2.5 cents a mile?
Electricity can be a clean renewable energy source. It is that right now in some areas.
I prefer to show off the future at stop lights in a fun way.
0-30 MPH times, yo! The new fun spec in cars !! Useful also, without the stink or noise !

Reading this chart brings the question: Is that #1 'Oil Import' from Canada the coal tar sands that are carried by train to refineries on the Gulf of Mexico and refined into gasoline, and other products, just to be exported for the profit of the Oil Industry? Some of these trains pass my back yard. And the old pipe lines they want to use have already been making horrible spills. There are closer refineries than on the Gulf. Why ship it so far?

#2 on the list: Saudi. Our old buddies in the middle east. (How come we never speak of "Establishing a Democracy" in Saudi?)

Please don't deny me the free electricity from my employer. "It's the clean energy future". "It's less than 25 cents a day with Industrial Rates."
"It's less than a heavy coffee drinker uses in company funds". "It sets an example to the passing public". "Please".
I was the first to plug in at work. There are many more now. I hope it's an established policy.....

 

Fair enough! you are wasting electricity because it's free!

So, you were burning rubber between stoplights with the Volt's 0-60?: Chevrolet Volt 0-60 Times - 0-60 Specs

Have a new Avatar for you 'cause your current daily driver is not American-made and it is fueled by OPEC.

Good stuff!

 

I wonder what the FCV's drive patterns will be like?

There is also plenty of PPI and Rav4 EV and other plugin owners getting charges at work.

 

First let me congratulate bill's employer in being forward looking and providing free electricity to encourage employees to purchase efficient cars and help the nations oil security.

Let's talk about guzzling electricity for a moment. Let's take coal intensive Kansas as an example. In 2013 Kansas according to the eia was 61% coal, 2% natural gas, 19% wind, and 18% mainly nuclear with some hydro and other renewables thrown in. Let's for ease of calculation pretend it is 63% coal that is 33% efficient and grid is 93% efficient and oil to gasoline refining 83% efficient. Your own numbers if you have better ones.

That means on fossil fuel equivelent of a gallon of gasoline takes (.63/.33/.93*.83) = 1.7 gge (gallon gasoline equivelents) of fossil fuel (mainly coal)
The volt gets 98 mpge so on a gge of fossil fuels (mainly coal) it would go 98 mpge / 1.7gge =
Volt charge depletion in Kansas 57 mpge (on coal energy equivalent of gallon of gasoline from oil).
If that is guzzling fossil fuel, then the prius is an oil guzzler. Come on people do the math. The most efficient toyota tundra gets 16 mpg the volt isn't a coal guzzler even in kansas, a very coal intensive state. The next gen volt does even better with 102 mpge, the i3-bev 124 mpge. You can plug that inot your regional grid for fossil fuel and see how efficient plug-ins will be on fossil fuel.

Now some like importing oil more than burning domestic coal. That is your prerogative. I think excellent programs like kansas's wind program will quickly reduce coal use in this country, but oil imports will continue to be a problem if we reject plug-ins. Kansas has enough potential wind to not only serve all the states needs, but to export much more to other states and reduce their coal use.

For some blended phevs are the best
for others phevs that can cover their commutes all on electricity
for still others bevs.

Calling free charging at work guzzling, is really a awful characterization, that does not apply.

I agree gen I volt is a little slow. Gen II is better, benchmark should be the new tesla 70d which goes to 60 in only 5.2 seconds yet gets 101 mpge. Electrical acceleration feels faster than gasoiline acceleration, which is why the new supercars are going plug-in. The future for plug-in efficient acceleration is bright. More companies allowing free charging at work can speed it up.

 

'Tis true, I'm a true blue customer of OPEC for the interim. But with a gas burner that had highest EPA rating ever: 71 MPG Hiway.
I'm not the House of Saud's favorite customer....

Dang, EV driving is habit forming,, and good clean fun.. I don't know if I can live with this 15 yr old pioneering hybrid S box until the Gen2 Volt appears.
I suppose my avatar is inaccurate....

I was pointing out 0-30 Times. I don't know the spec, but in real life you get to use this one all the time!
Modern cars don't 'burn rubber', traction/stability controls. Just silent fast fun !
And I was using electricity, not wasting it. The differences are in pennies. Let's not be OCD cheapskates.

I wonder what their Cost per Mile will be and what their useful range will really be, knowing they have to return to a unique refueling station.

 

The subsidised leases have hydrogen and maintenance rolled into the price. That should be true for at least the next 5 years in the US as numbers of fueling stations and vehicles will be so low. Zero additional cost per mile for a fuel cell car for now.

I'm not sure why fcv are even part of this discussion. They are only going to be available to a tiny percentage of drivers for at-least the next decade. FCV sold in north america in the next decade by all manufacturers are likely less than leaf sales before 2015.

 

I only brought them up because of complaints about free electricity from employer.

 

Some good news
LG Chem Exec Says Tesla Gigafactory Will Drive Down Costs For All Battery Makers
so the gigafactories economies of scale should trickle to other users of panasonic and lg batteries, including the volt, bolt, sononat energi, prius phv, ford energis, etc.

Chevrolet Volt Is Most Loved "Mass Market Car" - Tesla Model S Most Loved "Luxury Car" & Overall
Tesla is the most "loved" car overall by strategic vision. They found the volt tied with the dodge charger as most "loved" "mass market" car by strategic vision. "loved" was the highest rating in their survey.

IMHO the employee benefit of electricity at a parking spot is good for the employee, employer, and america. What's not to like unless you are a car dealer or car company trying to slam plug-in vehicles because you want to pretend much less efficient cars are fine, and besides they bring in more maintenance money for the dealership model. I'm sure those doubters on the forum just need to look at the real impact to the country's resources.

Fuel cell vehicles will also reduce fossil resource use for transportation. They do require a lot more government money, that is tax payer money, to build an infrastructure though, and its doubtful that consumers will like them as much as plug-ins.

 

How do you guys feel about employers giving free hydrogen?

 

Is austin saying an owner of a FCV will never have to pay for 'fuel'?

If this is true, it's similar to Tesla offering the free use of their Supercharger system on their higher level cars and it was a $2000 option for low level cars. If you live near one this could mean Free Fuel for Life. (Of course you have to keep yourself entertained during the 20-30 minute wait at the Supercharger.)
How that business model works is beyond me... (My 'Free' Google Fiber only has a 7 year guarantee.)

How do you guys feel about employers giving free coffee?

 

And I thought they were blowing smoke.

Bob Wilson

 

An employer can give away any free benifits they want.
Free hydrogen is a lot more expensive than coffee though.

 

No, and it would be foolish at this pre commercial stage for anyone in the US to buy a fcv. If they are going to get infrastructure they need to be a better value so depreciation will be high.

I do expect all the fuel for lessees to be free for the period of the lease, the near term (next 5 years at least, probably 15 but who knows). I would not be surprised to see leased cars crushed at the end of leases when warranty requirements start kicking in.

Tesla's business model on superchargers is quite simple. In order to sell more cars in the future, tesla needed to overcome range anxiety. The supercharger network is now included with every tesla, and is paid for by charging a little more on each car. At the beginning this cut into tesla profits, but by 2017 it should be a selling point, and make tesla more profitable. The model works because people want to charge at home and at work, so the supercharging network is inexpensive per car as it only provides a small fraction of fuel to the fleet as a whole.

Of course most employers should provide free coffee and snacks. Its a really inexpensive perk that adds to employee satisfaction.

Why not? Although it would be a weird perk for most businesses as their won't even be a car dealer around to lease a fcv, and nowhere else within range of the vehicle to refuel. In LA, if you have a big warehouse with fuel cell fork lifts, why not.

But isn't employer perks for hydrogen way off the grid on plug-in cars? Can't we get back to plug-ins. Even if fcv sell 5000 in the US in 2017 (Toyota only expects to make 3000 for the whole world that year and it is the most optimistic on sales) that will be what 0.03% of 2017 vehicle sales.

Can we get the focus back on plug-in cars? You know those things that are selling today, and may sell better with more employer charging perks.

 

I hear employers giving away natural gas on a regular basis. I myself donate occassionally at work although I try not to talk about it.