Hydrogen pipeline goes BOOM

doesn't sound any worse than natural gas.

 

There is no good information here except that there was an industrial fire, Hydrogen does not smoke, so it either was not hydrogen or it was grass fire. When they say hydrogen, it could be a mixture and they just call it hydrogen. It could be an H2 issue, but we just do not have any facts to work with here.

 

it will smoke once other stuff starts burning.
"The hydrogen fire itself was relatively small, but the initial flare-up also ignited some nearby equipment that sent thick smoke pouring across the access road and interstate."

 

Slow news day! how about this: Attempt To Charge Nissan LEAF After Hours Ends With Owner Pepper Sprayed And Tackled By Police (w/video)

 

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Sublime
April 30, 2015 at 9:23 am

1: I’m Rob Lowe and I have a Tesla.

2: And I’m shady-charge-after-hours Rob Lowe and I have a LEAF.

1: I can’t get over the tire burning and bone crushing acceleration

2: And I can’t get over the eye burning and bone crushing police tackles

1: Don’t be like this me, get rid of your LEAF and upgrade to a Tesla.

 

Hydrogen pipelines are much more expensive and require a lot more maintenance than natural gas pipelines. Some of this maintenance is not well understood, but makes building large hydrogen pipelines problematic. They mainly are short and where needed. Not really a problem for fcv, simply a problem for those claiming costs of hydrogen can get low with central production. Production will either be on site or through trucking liquid hydrogen for most of the country.

7 people died in a refinery explosion in california caused by poor maintenance of parts comeing in contact with hydrogen. That was part of the reason for the strike. The refinery followed all the proper engineering constraints for hydrogen, but did not properly analyse that those equations were likely wrong, which caused them to use bigger teams on change overs. The hydrogen had attacked the carbon in the steel infrastructure, and created methane that ultimately exploded.

 

I am not aware of any unusual issue with H2 on pipelines. As far as I know H2 supply pipelines are uncovered and just run miles with no issues. In a refinery scenario H2 is used in many places at extreme temps and pressures. In these scenarios pipes can fail for a number of reasons unrelated to H2 per se, any issue related to H2 per se is well understood becuase it's been used almost 100-years. Not to say a design error or lack or proper maintenance might not happen.

 

Hydrogen attacks just about every material. Natural gas uses carbon steel pipelines, and these could transport a little hydrogen with the natural gas, but hydrogen would attack the carbon. More expensive high purity stainless steel is now prefered for hydrogen, and these pipelines require regular inspection. Because of the maintenance and material requirements most hydrogen pipelines are 100 miles or less.

Yes absolutely that refinery explosion had high temperatures also, but they used carbon steel back when it was built. They noticed things were not right, but continued using the old equations. Methane was forming and creating cracks in the metal. All the carbon steel should probably be changed for safer material, unless more frequent inspections of this methane formation are done. The pg&e natural gas pipeline explosion in San Bruno that killed 8, was also do to using improper material and poor maintenance. They found that $100M that should have been spent on safety was illegally spent instead on executive compensation. California's PUC allowed most of the costs to be charged to pg&e customers through higher rates. The pg&e natural gas pipeline in Fresno this year that injured 15 was because a work crew including prison inmates dug into it. That is a problem with the person deciding where to dig and not the pipeline, but did pg&e even try to stop them from digging. Another PG&E pipeline explosion: What was learned from the 2010 explosion? (+video) - CSMonitor.com
Most companies are more responsible, but in california who will build these hydrogen pipelines?

Say we start building big pipelines with high purity stainless, and do proper maintenance. I don't see a safety problem, but you need to use these costs for hydrogen infrastructure and not much lower natural gas pipeline costs.

 

Unusual isn't a requisite to have issues. Look at our crumbling water lines in major cities. BOOM - sink hole here .... sink hole there ...
and that's just water. gas leaks take 'issues' to a whole new level.
.

 

That's true I have concerns about the way things are going...but spreading mis-information and fear is not the solution either.

 

+1

Absolutely, the pipeline fire in the OP was not dangerous it was just expensive. They had to close the highway and prevent the fire from spreading, and let all the hydrogen before shut off burn or go off into space. Here they were competent and shut off the pipeline fast. New pipelines always are safe for awhile until the hydrogen attacks. As long as there are regular inspections and sections replaced there should be no leaks, but those procedures often are not followed.

Pipeline fire: what happens when hydrogen burns?

My only problem here is TCEQ decided it was so minor they didn't investigate. Only when investigations happen do we find out why maintenance did not prevent this, but having a good fire department nearby mitigates problems.

2009 had a much worse rupture of a hydrogen pipeline, but this clearly happened because the 2007 inspection showing thinning walls was not followed up by more inspections and pipeline repairs. I guess the pipeline operator felt that those things cost too much money, resulting in damage to 100 homes.

CSB Releases Analysis Showing Cause of Rupture and Hydrogen Blast in 2009 Silver Eagle Refinery Accident in Woods Cross, Utah; Pipe Walls Thinned due to Corrosion that went Uninspected for Years - General News - News | the U.S. Chemical Safety Board