Tesla Battery Swap

i thought they gave up on that idea and were running with the superchargers?

 

I'm not sure this is even newsworthy. It seems some people are on a witch hunt lately with regards to Tesla.

From the article's source:

However, Tesla’s head of communications Ricardo Reyes tells Daily Kanban that Tesla has invited hundreds of Tesla owners to participate in the battery swap program and that only a small percentage of those invited had elected to take advantage of the offer.

So, "hundreds" invited, but a small percentage actually took advantage of the invitation.

And its Memorial Day weekend.. now, I have family in the SF bay area. I specifically elected not to visit that weekend because of the amount of traffic that I knew would be on the road. Now, if I had a Tesla, and I thought there may be other Teslas on the road and in need of Supercharging, I'd probably just say screw it and fly. Then factor in that out of "hundreds" who were invited, only a "small percentage" enrolled, what are the chances that someone who IS eligible would be using it that weekend. Apparently pretty darn small.

For additional context, those of you who are unfamiliar with the area, Harris Ranch is pretty much right in the middle, between LA and SF. Its usually a 6-7 hour drive for me, with no traffic (which is near impossible unless you drive real late at night, which I do).

Also, I thought I recall reading something about the battery swap idea and how Elon was hoping it would qualify Tesla for additional ZEV credits that had to do with refueling time (something CARB was trying to do to cater to the Hydrogen lobby). But after Tesla announced it, CARB essentially said that was cheating and disqualified "battery swap" as "fast refueling".

I dont think battery swap is viable everywhere anyhow. I DO think it would work in Harris Ranch, CA (which, again, is essentially halfway between LA and SF). You swap a battery on your way up, and swap back the original on the way back down (LA-SF then back).


EDIT: here's an article that discusses the changes CARB made that decreased the amount of ZEV credits Tesla is eligible for.. to get the maximum of 9 credits, the vehicle must refuel in 15 minutes and have a range of 300 miles.

Quote from article:

Also, while it might appear that Tesla’s battery swap technology that enabled the automaker to previously book 7 credits per Model S might still apply to the new standard, there is a rather lengthy submission (and usage verification) process that has to be filed to ARB’s executive officer. In other words, if there are more hoops now to jump through for not much (if any) ZEV transfer revenue – you can bet that Tesla’s battery swap plans probably just died.

source: CARB ZEV Program Changes; Tesla Takes Largest Hit, Fuel Cell Tech Wins

 

+1, the Tesla battery swap pretty much developed for the fast refuel credits. When those got nixed, there was no real reason to continue with it.

Since there are no credits I don't see how the Autoline Daily can claim Tesla is, "taking advantage of a loophole in the California ZEV mandate to collect more than $100 million in taxpayer money," with it.

With Tesla's swap, you have to get your original battery back on the return trip. Otherwise, you will be charged, prorated against the original, for a new pack. Which is the only way to fairly do a battery swapping system. Batteries aren't propane tanks, and most people would be annoyed if they swapped in the battery from their new car, and got a used one with lower capacity.

Which leaves the viability of swapping very limited.

 

+1

Absolutely true that tesla spent money on battery swap to get the credits CARB tried to create to give fuel cells a subsidy advantage. Autoline shouldn't be mad at tesla, that demonstrated that the "fueling requirement" was just a made up thing, it should be mad at CARB and the CFCP. CARB went and changed the rule to pretty much say fuel cell only last year, and added another 2 zev credits.

Now since Tesla has already collected some of the cash for selling these pre-rule change zev credits, why not see if people like it. Definitely I can see peopel doing round trips stopping at the same swap station to pick up their pack. Its $80 if you do that, versus free if you charge and wait. Or if you are doing a circle trips you can pay even more. People may do it. I know I have spent way too much company money for an airplane ticket at the last minute. It all depends about how important it is to get there. Why not allow the option. On other cirtcle trips where superchargers are too slow, take a different car ;-) if the swap fee is too much either way its a matter of how much it costs, not that teslas can't fuel fast (at the one swap station), its faster than hydrogen and california is paying for those stations and providing the zev credits.

The tax payers didn't pay for the tesla swap stations, as opposed to the hydrogen stations. It was other automakers that paid tesla for the zev credit scheme. Again CARB set up the sheme to favor fuel cells.

 

tesla should just give the pack warranty on whatever pack is in your car if it fails.

 

If they do, it likely won't cover you if the pack you got has10 miles less range or so.

 

tesla doesn't have a better battery health test than toyota?

 

An excellent thread on how bad economics leads to dead ends. Thanks to all for posting.

 

With time on a battery swap system, you will eventually get a battery that isn't as 'good' as the one you swapped out, but is still good. It is too costly to just toss out packs that aren't perfect.

This is why Tesla only did the battery swap at one station once they couldn't get the extra credits. They have hundreds of Superchargers though.

 

but you only have it until the next swap. it all evens out in the end.

 

Which is why I said Tesla's method is the only battery swap that is fair.

 

Well, it sounds like the program has been officially canned:

Tesla won't build more battery swap stations

"At the company's shareholders meeting, the CEO revealed that the uptake on the service has been miniscule. Musk said that, by this point, every Model S owner in California had been invited to book an appointment, but only a handful took them up on the offer. As such, it's highly unlikely that the company will persist with the plans, instead focusing its time, money and resources on building out its popular supercharger network."

 

Oh yeah..............all for the " credits "

 

i thought the battery swap idea had merit, you can't expect people to drive to one fool cell, er, battery swap station. but i suppose with longer range right around the corner, it would be a waste of short term funds.

 

So, hydrogen will be the only answer to refill 300 electric miles range under 5 mins with renewable energy?

 

i have no idea. 'will be' is a long ways away.

 

An Al-air battery can delivery quick electric refill under 5 minutes, and the water it uses only needs to be deionized or distilled.

 

They likely will be crushed so that the manufacturer doesn't have warranty requirements. They may be leased to fleets for for free to get the credits, but they can't simply sit there without costs and liabilities. They won't be sold and blocked except for collectors.

The problem is the cost and inconvience. Sure you can swap for lets say $50 if it got popular, or you can wait 40 minutes and recharge for free. Is that 40 minutes worth $50 to you? Maybe when there are 5 million bevs there might be enough people that want to pay instead of wait.

Of course a fuel cell can't be filled at home, as mr. hydrogen would cost tens of thousands of dollars, so the fuel cell car will fill for $50. Well the manufacturer or the state will pay, because with gas under $3/gallon, people wouldn't want to pay there either.