Free Public Chargers: Leaf Abuse

I think an objective reader of that thread would come to a different conclusion. It makes the most hot Priuschat thread look like an ice cube.

 

IIRC...
The Prius sold around 120k last year, and it is the high end outlier of hybrids.
The Camry, including the hybrid, sold over 400k.
The F150 sold over 700k.

If ignoring traditional cars in discussions of alternate fueled ones is bad, then ignoring the trucks is also bad, if not worse.

And what I said about trucks improving their fuel economy applies to traditional cars. If fact, I did say that in my post. We all here wish GM had a worthwhile hybrid car for awhile, but their ICEVs were competitive on fuel economy. The Cruze has been a big success for them, and it did receive some help from the Volt's presence. The Impala is the top selling full size sedan in the US. The old Malibu didn't do as well as either of them. It wasn't the lack of a full hybrid that brought it down.

I also said that until gas prices increase or the hybrid premium decreases, people are going to favor traditional cars. That is basic economics. Right now, they don't see the value of paying extra for a hybrid version. So, no one is ignoring the sales of traditional cars. There is simply isn't much to discuss.

The only possibility of getting people into more hybrids now, is for one of the car companies to stop offering their traditional car and just the hybrid. As Toyota did in Japan with the Camry. But none of them is going to do that, because, again, economics.

Did Musk pay advertising dollars to express that sole view. He isn't the only one to feel that way, and he surely doesn't expect to lose sales to the Mirai as Lexus did to the Model S.

 

So, it matters only if you pay advertising dollars, but Musk's press conferences, interviews do not count!

Need to think these things thru before posting, Lexus is up 16.2% so far this year! Lexus Enthusiast Community Forums

 

I don't know that it doesn't matter. It is an indication of how widespread the sentiment is.
Of course, we also know Tesla is backing up the disdain for fuel cells by not offering one anytime in the near future.
So it should be no surprise that when Toyota executives show disdain for plugin cars that many believe they are backing that up by Toyota not planning to push that solution.

As for likes, I e liked many things in the past that were pro Toyota. That went down when illogical arguements that were used against Toyota/Prius are now being used against plugin vehicles.

 

The luxury brands with competitors to the Model S have lost sales to it. While the Lexus brand is up, the LS, which is the Tesla competitor is down 8.2%. The Germans respond by upping their plug in programs. If they don't have a model available now, they will soon. Lexus response was to run negative ads spreading FUD along the lines of hybrid detractors.

Elon Musk had been asked his views on fuel cells and he gave it. They aren't a threat to Tesla. Hyundai leased what, 40 Tuscon FCVs so far. SO I'd say Musk is more likely pissed at the FCV politics from CARB. Tesla can swap out a battery in 90 seconds; half the quickest time a FCV can refuel. After demonstrating this, the CARB ZEV rules on fast refueling get rewritten to exclude battery swaps. That piss me off, but may Musk also see it as a waste of resources and loss of focus. If FCVs work out, it won't be for awhile. Plug ins can help improve California air quality right now, but FCVs count more for a company's quota.

I mention advertising dollars, because spending them shows a level of commitment from the company. I grant that Musk speaking can be free advertisement. So, has he ever stated anything misleading, or out right FUD, about fuel cells?

On Lexus sales, the automotive sector as a whole is up. Also following the general trend in the market that traditional cars are crushing hybrid sales, the CT(dedicated hybrid) and ES(hybrid version most attainable of the other Lexus hybrids) are both down. The bulk of Lexus sales growth came from trucks, and Tesla's SUV isn't on sale yet.

 

Gas prices are low-ish, and most consumers apparently have the memory of goldfish...

Fairly typical and why I have a fairly negative impression of the Tesla community. Super vicious. God help you if you even intimate that the Model S is not the best car ever.

 

That's no different than saying the Prius is anything but perfect here, although most car forums are less civil than PriusChat...FHoP not withstanding.

 

I think it's quite a few dozens, otherwise I feel very special

 

Sorry to back track...but I will on this one.

My response is two part: 1) Keep you fricking hands off my vehicle and visa-versa. Any damage what-so-ever and the least of your problems will be a law suit. 2) You do not drive beyond your range without "guaranteed" charging capability. If someone does not understand these two simple rules of common sense...they deserve what they get.

 

I know there are differences, but the people thinking it is fine to unplug a charged car, have you ever thought of taking the gas hose out of a filled car that the owner had stepped away from, whether he is paying, getting snacks, or using a restroom?

 

Depends on if the charging station is free or not.

If you pull the hose out of my Prius at the gas station and start filling your car with it the cost goes onto my credit card unless you take the trouble to put the hose back to stop the session.

If you pull the cable out of my Leaf at a free station then I'm not going to pay for your charging session.

It isn't just a matter of if the first car is done filling up, it's also an matter of billing.

My Leaf is a 2012 and charges so slow I can't imagine a time it would ever be fully charged and still plugged in (other than in my garage at home). But if that were the case I'd be fine with you unplugging me and starting a new session so long as I'm not billed for it.

If you pull the cable out of my Leaf or the gas hose out of my Prius and start a new session so it doesn't go on my credit card then what do I care?

 

I do not know about that. There is no damage unplugging a J1772 connector from a vehicle that is no longer charging. No damage, no lawsuit. You intimate a lawsuit is the "least" such a transgression would cause. If you are suggesting physical violence, it is you who will wind up with a civil lawsuit against you, and possibly criminal charges.

The ONLY situation where it would not be okay to unplug a fully charged vehicle is if the EVSE is a pay-per-kWh or per-hour, and the charges would accrue to the owner of the car you disconnect from. That's clearly not cool.

Otherwise, what's the BFD? At my work campus, there is one Level 2 EVSE, two Volts, two Leafs, and my PiP. Somehow, we all get along just fine. It's called being reasonable and courteous.

 

You have no right to mess with another persons vehicle because you feel entitled or otherwise...and one that is fueling at that. Out of context and you know it...comparing 5 folks that have an agreement at your work campus to share free charging, to strangers at "public" charging...free or not.

 

People have killed over parking spaces. Plugin use will expand in time. Cars are private property, and most people aren't ok with strangers touching their stuff without permission first.

 

Two things you don't mess with men on, their woman and their car...and heaven help the poor sucker if my wife finds someone messed with her car. Something to do with hell and fury comes to mind.

 

It's disturbing reading such terse attitude.

Courtesy goes both ways.

Here, some have a tag they hang from the cord stating that it's acceptable to remove the plug and when.

 

Meaning the owner has given permission.

 

i'm sitting at whole foods, having lunch, and getting a 'free' charge, minus the $10. salad. when i got here, there was an i3 in the other space, not plugged in. thank you sir or madam.

 

Absolutely concur.
If I ever get a PHEV, I'll probably employ such a strategy.
However, I will also not feel entitled to fumbledork around with somebody's car just because they got to the charging station ahead of me.

 

Don't read me wrong. I'm very courteous and have no problem with plug-ins (either variety), but hands off my wheels unless I give you specific permission...period.