Featured Nationwide Gen 2 Chevy Volt delayed until 2016

The only difference I can think of would be the catalytic converter.

Toyota lists the Prius as complying to less stringent emissions regulations in the non-CARB states but perhaps the car is actually identical everywhere and they just want to minimize warranty claims. I don't know.

The first generation Volt uses a different catalytic converter in CARB states. We don't know yet what they are doing with the second generation design.

 

Right I think FORD, GM have different versions for CARB states. So when you have a CARB warranty claim, it's just if you have CARB car in CARB state, you're covered. Toyota has all the crazy rules because they chose to go with a 50-state car, so Toyota wants to have policy rule control over CARB warranty..

I am simply wondering if that's why the nationwide Volt roll-out is delayed as they are on a CARB mfg run right now.

 

The new engine is aluminum, di, and uses strong cooled egr, combined this means that you can use an inexpensive catlytic converter which means you should use the same one. The gen I iron block engine was dirtier at start up, and probably less expensive to make, but required that other more expensive cat for california's AT-PZEV rating. This one shouldn't at all. They may make non-carb states have different programming, to allow more cold start pollution, in return for better start up efficiency. People have spoofed the prius ECU to do this successfully, but its only helpful on short trip mpg.

Prius as well as other cars have shorter waranty in other states, and that is to save money. The batteries may also not do as well in hot or cold states, while something like 80% of carb sales are in mild climate California, which is gentle on the battery compared to Texas or Minnesota.

They get credits in CARB states, so they make more money in the short term if demand exceeds production. They also will make more higher trim more profitable cars. I am assuming gm thinks demand will exceed production, as production catches up they will make more base models and roll it out to other states. The gen I did not have such demand, and Austin in a non-carb state was a launch city. I would guess that some big dealers in detroit and austin will be able to get some cars this year. The delay is just on the general form, we don't have an official delay for all dealers, just general availability.

 

If I remember correctly, there were claims that higher Volt sales were anticipated than showed up. In California, the Volt and PIP were roughly at parity. At least the Volt wasn't burdened by being rumored the 'Prius killer' like the Insight II.

Bob Wilson

 

paul scott must be very embarrassed by that article. but what else to expect from 'plug in america'?

 

Before they became plug in America, they were called "Don't Crush. Org. Toyota is still attempting to renege on their deal to not crush any more of the extended lease 1st gen rav4ev's. An owner is trying to buy out his lease. He's in Colorado & facing contempt of court charges for not returning his gen1 rav4ev. Speaking of contempt, how's that for contempt against the plugins. Bottom line is, Paul Scott is too busy to be embarrassed about anything.
There's little being leaked about the second gen pip. I hope Toyota hasn't been quiet due to Volt having better stats than the pip - and diverting resources to their natural gas powered hydrogen car

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busy writing more hyperbole?

 

Yes I wonder if the ICE MPG is higher in non-CARB due to programming. If they go with 50-state Volt, i doubt it, but it would be interesting to read CARB warranty to see if like Toyota they say you have to buy in a CARB state. More likely CARB Volt is a slightly different vehicle and emissions sticker.

 

Gen I also had an AIR pump in CARB states.

 

Searching online, the current inventory is listed as 2,634. That's 2 months sales, based upon heavily discounted prices in August to clear out what's left. As the calendar advances, that rate will become increasingly difficult to match.

Other automakers march on. Obviously, Toyota will be stirring the pot with Prius. BMW just announced their entire fleet will add a plug in some fashion, they even just announced 2 new plug-in hybrids on the way. Mitsubishi Outlander plug-in hybrid has been selling well outside the United States, which means we'll eventually get it here too. And of course, there's a variety of EV choices.

GM's decision to delay prior to sales beginning will bring some interesting spin. Whatever the case, we things can happen beyond the automakers control. We also know the market still isn't ready... especially with gas so cheap. Heck, I saw it at $2.22 today. Ugh.

The problem with Volt the first time around was lack of clarity. There were so many mixed messages, the chaos was a challenge to document. Though, it isn't difficult to remember certain goals being missed and weak sales. The original goals were set so it could become a high-volume profitable seller. This next-generation didn't focus on them. Why?

We've been told production for the first year has been set to just 25,000. That's well below the mainstream minimum of 5,000 per month and pales in comparison to sales of other GM cars.

In other words, even without any delay, what difference will it make? More is needed. The technology must be spread to make it feasible to sustain the business. Should the hope for change come from Malibu hybrid instead?

 

I meant to count that as part of the "alternate catalytic converter." I don't actually know the detailed differences or exactly how the air pump is added. For all I know, it's the same catalytic converter except with an air inlet screwed into the intake.

 

"I'm so hungry I could eat a horse" ... that's hyperbole. "Hoping" Toyota isn't throwing plugin's under the bus is not hyperbole ... especially considering the negative ad campaign they did - coupled with sales only done in CARB states. Hope is good.

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Tomorrow is Sept 8 and we'll have some facts and data about the 2016 Prius. Hopefully between Sept 8 and Nov/Dec when production is scheduled to start, we'll get enough information to figure out what makes most sense.

Bob Wilson

 

You were lucky or I was very, very unlucky.

 

I don't know why we would single out california, as even though that is an important state, its a compliance state. The criticism here is that the volt is only rolling out to the compliance states (CARB) at first, which I think is a mistake in marketing, but it will probably boost gm's profits in a narrow 9 month window on the car, as these states grant regulatory credits which have value.

The leaf, volt, and prius phv all failed to meet their sales projections. Here we can look at 3 metrics, Japan, US, and World wide. Here the leaf had the highest expectations and the biggest disappointment.

Here Are The 9 Plug-In Electric Cars With Over 25,000 Cumulative Worldwide Sales

In this list, for world wide, we have good news for the Model S, Outlander phev, and bmw i3. They are doing better than expected, and all are increasing manufacturing capabilities to grow next year.

Even though the leaf is the top of the list, the sales figures are the most disappointing of the original 3 to announce - gm, toyota, nissan.

Nissan Renault invested over $5B on plug-ins to get first mover advantages and high volume sales, but don't seem to be selling enough cars. Nissan is taking it back to the drawing board on the gen II leaf (Q2, 2017) they are sticking with it and hope to get sales in the next generation commensurate with their original ambitions. Japan was the most disappointing in terms of Markets for nissan, as the government incentivized hybrids and all those fast chargers didn't really help sales.

The volt was first out in December 2010 (US), the prius phv in January 2012 (Japan), both failed to meet the estimates of the companies. The volt/ampera never sold well in Europe, and was eventually cancelled there. Toyota anticipated sales of 60,000/year, 2/3 from japan, but sales never happened in Japan - 21,600 in over 3 years Toyota's goal number of 20,000/year in the US was not close in 2012, or 2013, but they started out 2014 with it easily in reach, then kind of let sales die off. Toyota prius phv is more disappointing as they never rolled out past compliance states, and killed production over a year before the gen II will start. Still maybe that gen II will be really good, we have to wait and see. GM's goals were similar to toyota's in volume, and the car bombed in Europe as much as the prius phv bombed in Japan. In the US though despite being a political punching bag (Obama's car, and a congressional which hunt) and gm not able to explain the car to the public or dealers, iit was tied for second after tesla for owner satisfaction. .
Consumer Reports: Tesla Model S Rated #1 In Customer Satisfaction

The next gen looks really good on reviews, but I'm not sure how well it will sell. The roll out looks a little botched by gm. They need to get out more internet advertising explaining the erev concept (daily driving all electric, long trips as an efficient 42 mpg hybrid, smooth quiet acceleration with the engine off except for long rips. They also need much better dealer training, and not to be a political punching bag. The volt R&D is building a new plant in china, the upcoming bolt, and the malibu hybrid. Investing in volt technology was a good use of money for gm, unlike some of their other investments. It tried to lead, and is still trying to do that, but tesla is leading, gm is fast following though.

 

so you think a baaa

so u think a ar thatsing riven and ears is going to havefect

no I offered $5000 for the car.cash and Id tow it away and take my chances..never called me back

you are talking about cars that are driven and charged, these are sitting on a car lot baking in the florida sun for over a year..don't really care if you believe me or not. common sense says its true.

 

Since there is a $7500 tax credit that gm can not use on a future vehicle (limit of 200,000)), that represents a loss of probably over $10,000 to chevy/dealer versus selling the car for parts. I'm not sure what your point is other than you made an insulting offer, and the deaer didn't want to deal with you. Once you bought the car you wouldn't have to tow it, just give it to the same dealer to replace the battery if its dead, chevy would honor the warranty to a customer, they just don't want to give teh dealer anouther battery for free if they ruined it by incompetence.

Yes stupid and bad dealers are the biggest challenge to the gen II breaking out with high sales. I'm sure if the dealer couldn't even bother to plug it in once a month the battery could lose capacity. Common sense says you just shouldn't deal with such a dealer.

 

Fewer and fewer models have CARB and federal emissions. The two are so close that there isn't much gain in doing it.
The gen1 Volt had it in the second year because the car had a carbon monoxide spike on ICE start up. No big deal in the overall use of the car, but it was enough to compete it from qualifying for HOV stickers in California. GM came up with a solution and made it a no cost option for the customer. Which is a minor cost to GM in order to get a California sale. Thus we got two different emission Volts.

The cost of putting it on all Volts may have been too high for GM to simply eat; so it could have raised the base cost of the a little. Which, considering the EV ratio and already low emissions, would have meant little real world improvement of the car's emissions.

Knowing what they know now about the test, and how CARB assumes PHVs will never be plugged in, there is no reason to expect the gen2 Volt to not hit the emission targets to qualify for the highest emission bin and the HOV sticker. Plus, EPA Tier III will be rolled out during this gen's life.

 

'prius killer' is hype, and not the only time it has been used. it is good to be #1 though.