Honda Will Unveil Hydrogen Car With Longer Range to Rival Toyota

I spoke to an owner of the Honda Clarity (looks like an Insight sedan), and he was offered the chance to upgrade his car to double the tank size. So basically 300 miles. In reality fuel cells don't make sense:

- With the Tesla EV, every 300 miles you have to make a 20-minute pitstop along the interstate

- With the Hyundai or Toyota FCVs, every 300 miles you have to make a 20-minute pitstop at CARB's stations

NO DIFFERENCE IN TIME WASTED. NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. There is no advantage to having a fool cell car. On the contrary it's darn inconvenient, because there's no option to charge at home. Every other day I have to detour to a hydrogen station (rather than just go home & plugin).

 

when is honda going to unveil their new bev? they are in danger of falling behind.

 

They are no longer in danger.

They are behind in plug-ins.
But here is there fuel cell
Honda Reveals Production-Ready FCV Fuel-Cell Vehicle – News – Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

 

Wish we had a rear picture to compare to the Mirai.

 

The 20 minute stops by the 250-mile range Tesla driver add 150 miles of range because charging more than that begins to ramp down the charging rate and would result in longer overall trip charging.

The 300-mile range FCV owner stops for 3-5 minutes if the station has their act together or 20 minutes worst case and adds maybe 250 miles of range.

The Tesla/EV charging is definitely less convenient than an FCV if H2 charging stations actually existed along interstates. But, it's fast enough and to be a reasonable match to human biological needs to eat, use the bathroom, or stretch and excercise during a long drive.

Yes, a 250-mile EV is much more convenient to drive at home or at a travel destination with overnight charging facilities. Plugging in at night or charging wirelessly makes the trip to the "gas" station every few days a chore that's no longer necessary.

 

woof.

 

Details aside, I certainly prefer the looks of the Honda over the Mirai.

Fuel Cell Propulsion: Another technology helping GM set the pace in achieving zero emissions is fuel cell propulsion. GM has been working to advance hydrogen fuel cells for a decade, launching its first fuel cell electric vehicle in 2007. In collaboration with Honda, it is developing a next-generation hydrogen fuel cell stack and hydrogen storage systems. GM confirmed its plans to jointly develop a commercially viable fuel cell vehicle with Honda in the 2020 timeframe. Because the technology can also provide promising financial rewards, GM indicated it is pursuing non-automotive fuel cell applications for the aerospace and military industries.

GM plans $5.5B in cost cuts to help finance new mobility - US News

So I guess Honda's next generation release will be with GM.(?)

 

Brand loyalty will probably be more important than looks, and in california toyota has a lot of brand loyalty.

The march 2016 estimate is from the delay anounced in 2014, and that is for japan. We don't know if honda will export to the California in 2016 or wait until 2017. I would expect them to match toyota and hyundai's lease rate, which may decrease next year if the companies need numbers for compliance. This car likely is being released to fast to benefit much from gm partnership or the toyota patent share, but the next gen should benefit from these. Honda sells fewer cars in california than toyota, they would probably need 2000 cars versus toyotas 3000, but honda has bought credits already from tesla, so that number is lower and they should be able to buy more credits from tesla and/or nissan even if they never lease another fcv or bev. California expects a total of less than 11,000 fcv from all makers by the end of 2018, which means honda is probably telling them 2000 or less by the end of 2017.

 

Price and volume projections are now out.
Eco-cars: Honda to standardize chassis in cost-saving measure- Nikkei Asian Review

The increase to 1500 units/year likely will happen when costs come down substantially with the redesign with GM's help around 2020 or 2021.

It looks like honda will not add many cars compared to toyota, 400 versus 3000 mirai projected in 2017, 2018, 2019.
Numbers are not yet from nissan/mercedes/ford partnership fuel cell, and we know hyundai has cut there estimates, but don't know what the number is.in the future.

 

Great to hear Honda entering the FCV market!

DBCassidy

 

Wanting to say something . . . ANYTHING positive;
Ok -at least it doesn't look like



a cartoon monster ~
Which just goes to show you - a car can suck air without looking bizarre. Bizarre is the last thing you'd ostensibly want to do, when you already have 3 strikes (infrastructure, only 4 seats, & cost) going against you.
Go Honda!!
?
.

 

What happen with the Insight?

 

Honda Insight gets the axe | Autoweek
If you mean the gen II insight, there wasn't a market for almost as good as a prius, but a little cheaper in North America.

It sold ok in Japan, but the fit hybrid and toyota aqua did what it was trying to do better (be a less expensive prius). Just a general market flop.

It looks like Honda/GM are playing for 2025 with this strategy. While Toyota is planning to drop costs by building 30,000 fcv around 2020, honda is going to lower cost by sharing the platform with plug-ins that sell around 35,000/year. Maybe toyota will find cost reduction and mass production moving ther fuel cell(s) to TGNA platform.

Producing 30,000 fuel cell vehicles a year should be a lot cheaper than 1500 fuel cell vehicles per year, but .... perhaps gh/honda have a different way to manufacture them that drops them in costs without the volume. The DOE's inexpensive fuel cells are based on production of 500,000/year. If Honda builds 1500/year and gm builds 1500/year and they manufacture them together tabout 20% more than making 30,000 per year as toyota is doing. The bigger key is cost reduction in the manufacturing of the fuel cell itself, and if they can come up with a much cheaper design. Tanks probably if toyota has a big advantage, might be cheaper buying from toyota. DOE hopes tank costs drive down to less than $2000/car by 2020. The tanks aren't really as strategic, but packaging them in the cars is probably a big deal.

Honda with its estimates is clearly trying to follow in case some fuel cell cost reduction can be found, but not lead Toyota. Between Honda and GM,they look to try to sell only 10% combined that toyota/bmw do between 2020-2025. Honda appears to have tied this introduction to the mirai release, otherwise they would have probably waited longer to study how the gm engineering and patents could help them make a better car.

 

More imformation released today. Perhaps more tomorrow too.
Tomorrowland: We Drive Honda's New Fuel-Cell Vehicle – News – Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

 

I'm curious about maintenance costs over time of an FCV. I'm well aware of how batteries deteriorate and eventually need to be replaced. I know little about FCVs in general and wonder if there are components that will likewise wear out an need to be replaced. How does the cost of replacing FCV components compare with an EV over perhaps 10 years and 300,000 miles?