mpg numbers are shown on website for 2016 Prius

That is probably true and in fact what I said...
This is why my suggestion is to report these numbers alongside with the adjusted ones, in the fueleconomy.gov site that includes lot of other info, not on the window sticker where 'most ordinary car shoppers' (your definition) are looking for info.

 

Can't wait to see what "Hypermilers" will get when they get hands on one of these! Reg gas around here is $1.88.

Will Driving The New Prius For $37 Per Month Discourage Someone From Buying A Tesla?

 

Really, this guy comparing Tesla and Prius saying now Prius has better interior and competes with Tesla? Looks like he is in some kind of dream land or he is delusional. These are mostly from BMW 5-7 series, or Mercedes S series folks that are moving to Tesla. I have several friends who bought Tesla, so I know what they were driving before. Not even one driving Prius before they bought Tesla. (Does not mean it makes economic sense to buy a Tesla). It may make some sense if he compares Volt, leaf, Accord Hybrid, Sonata Hybrid, C-Max Hybrid, even BMW i3 some what, but Tesla, really?

When Prius II was released, it is much more advanced than any other car, esp in non-luxury segment. How many non-luxury cars have Smartkey, HID, Bluetooth, and mileage in 40s, in 2006? Hardly any to none. That is one of the biggest appeal even for me.

Now every brands, even subcompact car has all these features and more. Mileage nearing 40 etc. In last 10 years Auto industry became more hi-tech, but nothing much change in Prius other than slight efficiency improvements.

So, new Prius does not have same edge over the other cars anymore. Even fuel economy advantage is diminished, and low fuel prices are not going do any favors either. At this Prius forum we may not agree, but reality is appeal for Prius is reduced or vanished.

 

i expect they'll drop the whole line in a year or two. another failed experiment. oh well, that's the only way you find out if something works.

 

I doubt it is because Toyota is not capable of doing it, but because they choose not to invest in this anymore. I believe Toyota would come to market with real usable Fuel Cell vehicle sooner than others. That is where they are spending money. They see even Prius is a stop gap.

That may be the reason, they spend some money on Chassis, but not on Prius power train. Otherwise how would be explain, not even 10% mileage improvement, even reduce power on already slow dog. Other than some tunes here and there, nothing that is noteworthy in Prius powertrain wise.

Think about Toyota 3.5L V6, or 2.5L I4. These are in the market for long time, they are extremely reliable, but any advancements? nope, nothing, they are exactly same as almost 10-15 years so, where as competition is gone much more advance than Toyota. Examples, include Mazda 6 powertrain, Sonata Eco, Sonata Hybrid, New Malibu Hybrid, Accord Hybrid, more advanced Volt, even porky Pilot gives better mileage than highlander. Almost all new cars from Nissan, Honda, Mazda, and now Hyundai with Eco model give better mileage than Toyota Camry.

I think Toyota sees IC engines are way out the door sooner than later, and do not want spend too much in improvements. I know they came with new 2.0L turbo for new Lexus NX, but that is stop gap too. It is less efficient than BMW 2.0 Turbo, so is real world power too(slower than most in 0-60 too). Compare to Much bigger vehicle like MDX, even Pilot give better fuel economy than this small SUV and faster too.

I do not have too much hopes on any Toyota until those Fuel Cells become mainstream. But I wouldn't mind a used Lexus ES300H or even Avalon Hybrid. I have not driven or seen 2016 Chevy Malibu Hybrid, but I have some hopes. I drove ES300h several times, l like it and I know it is going to very reliable.

So, I guess my Prius replacement is not going to be a Prius.

 

that makes me feel much better about the future.

 

Back to EPA ratings while it would be easier to better 2016 EPA numbers it is not likely to be off by huge margin. We should probably leave it at that and return to it a couple years later, when fuelly data available.

The only time we saw a car doing considerably better than EPA on fuelly it was a certain VW model, and we know how that turned out. It is very unlikely Toyota will fall into the same category.

It is also possible that US model is different from EU and Japan, and we are getting worse improvement due to lower octane rating or more stringent NOx restrictions. But so far this has not been discussed anywhere, and it doesn't look to be the case.

interesting point of view but it doesn't work that way. BEV in general and Tesla specifically are fad cars, putting aside HOV sticker situation people arent buying them to save money. If it were only about money there would have been x10 more Chevy Spark and Mitsubishi Mirage on the road. Unfortunately while they are both testimony to how far industry came in producing basic econobox transportation, they can't exploit "green" image. Tesla took Prius sales not because it is better car or more economic to run, it took sales because it is perceived as greener. This is beyond common sense and will not change even if gas goes back to 68 cent per gallon.

 

That was funny, thank you for sharing

 

I read it as: Comparing Gen IV' s interior, "how the car drives" vs. Gen III, not Tesla.

Low gas prices and improved Gen IV mpg vs. electric vehicles. I think low gas prices, lack of incentives will affect plug-ins, but not Tesla.

Better: "Will Driving The new Prius For $37 Per Month Discourage Someone From Buying an Electric Vehicle?"

 

Well, the author is short TSLA and did get his airfare, ladling and meals paid for when he test drove the gen 4, so I think he meant exactly what he wrote. Bizarre as it may be.
His numbers are made up as well though, sloppy investigation or purposely misleading, you be the judge.

 

Exactly!! It is perceived as greener with no gas.
Prius was perceived as such 10 years ago, even richer folks bought it for greener creds as well as for advanced technology packages available on Prius.

Now, Prius should compete with too many cars with hi-tech, fuel efficiency and handling. I still wish they provided good power like Camry Hybrid/C-Max/Accord Hybrid in this hatchback form with decent handling.

Weird thing is even Honda beat them at their own game with Hybrid Accord, with faster, more fuel efficient family sedan. I think it may take iteration or two for Honda to get as reliable as Toyota HSD though. (They are doing some changes for 2017 already).

 

This is not supported by polls, or people I talk with.
I set up polls at the Leaf, Volt and Tesla forums asking what type of car their plugin vehicle replaced.
Efficient car market growth and trends | PriusChat

For Tesla sales, high efficiency cars were a very small percentage.

Yes, the Tesla took some Prius sales, but I would suggest none were from people for whom costs of fuel made any difference.
At best, it is considered frosting on the cake.

 

The article was referring to study which had shown that 15%+ Tesla trade ins were Prius.

I think we are agreeing in principal that BEV/Tesla fenomen does not have economic basis so the premises of the article that cheap gas and better new Prius will hurt Tesla are flaud. They occupy completely different niche.

 

No, the article this article referred to stated that about 15.5% of Tesla buyers owned a Toyota brand vehicle. Not a Prius, although of that 15.5%, Prius was number one. Highlander and Sienna were in there as well.
This is what I mean by sloppy, or intentionally misleading reporting.

The article referenced was also published in February of 2014, so it was likely 2013 data, although there is no reference to the actual study so who knows if it was for a full year or single month, and for what area. Perhaps it was California sales only, which would slant the results.
Regardless, I'm sure the current sales conquests have changed quite a bit from the initial full year of sales. Fewer pioneers and early adopters.

Update, found it. IHS Automotive Blog | Who is buying the Tesla Model S? | IHS Blogs
Looks like it was from Polk automotive consumer loyalty data November, 2013 YTD. So nationwide, for 11 months of 2013.

 

Tesla does not really have competition. Tesla cars will sell with or without the $7,500 or low gas prices.

One Model S is equal to 5 Gen III's at current discounts!

 

"Really" Looks like question I need to ask?

Led lights: Too many too list (Corolla, 2016 Honda Civic, accord, pilot, new Elantra..all non-luxury cars.), forget about led tail lights, too many list(please search yourself). FYI new Elantra comes with all other leds you mentioned those, whatever they are worth it.

BTW, I prefer my Xenon HIDs much better than those Led head lights(First hand experience with MDX and Corolla led lights). HID light out put is much higher, peripheral illumination is higher too. Bulb life, I only had to change one set on my Prius in almost in 10 years(Hardly $60/set for OEM philips). Led headlights/tail light etc, really does not buy anything. Also color temp of HID is much better for visibility in rain.

DRCC, most Subarus, Mazda, Chrysler 200, Jeep cherokee, (most of these are from 2014), Honda,
Ford... Their might be subtle differences, but in essence they have similar feature set. Same thing with Parking.Even new Elantra and Civic has LKA.

You must be kidding about Touch sensitive SKS lock, not sure what does it buy, many cars have too.

Even my family hauler Odyssey has LDW, CDW, Smartkey, lane change/blind spot warning etc even in mid tier trim. HUD only thing may be little more advance than others. Nothing much here to boast like Gen II.

There are even many models with Handsfree smart trunk/hatch, as well as wave trunk release. Android Auto, Apple car play, auto high beam... list goes on.

Even Sonata plug-in hybrid, a family sedan boasts CD of 0.24/ (Ofcourse Tesla is always there). I do not know why Toyota struggling so much to get 0.24 with weird shape when normal sedan can do that.

As much as I love my current Prius, Prius tech advantage ship has sailed. In real terms, Toyota has nothing to brag about. May be in future when Fuel Cell come to market, that too may be...

Adding to this problem, now all the advantages of Prius all taken out in new Prius, nice wagon like high seating, ability drive up to curb with more bumper clearance, abundant storages in cabin, and plenty of leg room space for 2nd row with nice up right seating are gone. Not sure who asked about more trunk space for Gen 4.

I still can not fathom, how despite being 3-4 inches longer, and wider, the actual passenger volume is reduced in Gen 4, and about 5 inches of legroom is vanished in rear compared to Gen 2!, really! That is best thing my kids like, plenty of room for two, and up right seating. Infact I really like how speedo arranged in Gen II (gen 3 screwed up in that respect).

Only redeeming quality I can think of new Prius relative to old one (not compared to other cars), it seems is better noise reduction, and some steering feedback.

I am pretty sure, Gen 4 is going to be a failure. Of Course first year, we see some demand because of hold outs, nothing more unless they do something in midlife cycle. I too was holding out for Gen 4, but Toyota made it hopeless.

 

Really?
Where is the Android Auto/Car Play?
Where is the WiFi?
Where is the remote link?
Where are the heated rear seats?

 

When Toyota releases their roll-down coefficients, I look forward to comparing the v**2 coefficient and vehicle front profile areas.

Well then, sell your Toyota stock. I understand VW stock is very affordable.

Bob Wilson

 

Bob, that might actually be a good investment strategy.