Need Help Assessing Possible Issues

Hey all, here's a long first post from someone who drove a Prius for the first time today. I'm used car shopping and have read Prius Chat for a week or two. I looked at a high mileage (150K miles) 2010 Prius today in Oakland. It's a good prospect as a single owner vehicle with a clean title, good Carfax history and all (non oil change) service done at Toyota dealers. The price was also good, which leaves room for even large repairs like a new HV battery while still staying within the approximate asking price of similar mileage Gen3 Priuses in the local craigslist. With the low price, I was willing to take a risk and not do a pre-purchase inspection due to timing issues with him leaving for vacation and both of us not wanting to wait until he gets back. We didn't complete the deal because the banks closed early today for Christmas Eve. I offered and he accepted a $300 deposit to hold the car for about 10 days while the seller goes away on vacation. I probably shouldn't have offered that deposit, since he was going to work with me first anyway, but I'm not too worried that he might not return my money if I back out.

The car did not pass smog testing a couple of days ago because a check engine light was on (code P0171). It was taken to the dealer where, today, they replaced the MAF sensor and purge valve (VSV according to web search of the part name):

OWNER REPORTS 'CHECK ENGINE' LIGHT IS COMING ON/CK & REPORT CUSTOMER STATES VEHICLE FAILED SMOG. P0171- SYSTEM TOO LEAN BANK 1 ~|~INTERNAL MALFUNCTION WAS FOUND IN THE MAF SENSOR AND THE PURGE VALVE WAS FOUND STUCK OPEN MOMENTARILY CAUSING THE LEAN CONDITION. ~|~REPLACED BOTH MAF AND PURGE VALVE. RECHECKED VEHICLE OPERATION AFTER. PLEASE ADVISE TO DRIVE THE VEHICLE FOR AT LEAST A WEEK BEFORE RETURNING TO SMOG INSPECTION.​

VALVE ASSY, VACUUM S 2586037020

METER SUB-ASSY, INTA 222040V010​

Can anyone explain why we need to run the vehicle for a tank of gas before trying to get the car smogged again? Is it likely to fail smog without driving it for a week? That's going to delay the smog check for yet another week maybe, and I don't have that time. I'm not sure if the owner can do that driving either.

I just dug up another recent issue with the car from the Toyota owners' records from just 1,000 miles ago:

ENGINE OPERATIONS ~|~CUSTOMER STATES LACK OF POWER WHEN DRIVING UPHILL WITH HEAVY LOAD. PLEASE CHECK AND ADVISE. ~|~2166 TEST DROVE UP A HILL . ENGINE HAS POWER GOING UP HILLS AT THIS TIME, CK FOR CODES ALL NORMAL.NO CODES. CAN NOT VERIFY CUSTOMER CONCERNS AT THIS TIME.​

And

FUEL SYSTEM ~|~CUSTOMER STATES VEHICLE ONLY GETTING 35MPG. PLEASE CHECK AND ADVISE ~|~TEST DROVE OK A/FILTER OK CK FOR CODES ALL OK. ~|~TEST OK HAS POWER AND NO CODES.​

So it stumped the dealer. Nothing to show for the service except another oil change. Maybe that's why he's selling the car, besides all warranty running out. A search of this forum suggests that the lack of power, if a change from previous performance in the same hills, could be related to a weakening traction battery - which makes sense to me. Someone also suggested checking ignition coils. Or it could be that the owner doesn't often go up hills with a heavy load and it's totally normal. But he lives in hilly Oakland and probably knows what is normal (that this is a change).

I didn't notice lack of power during my test drive, but I wasn't aware of this dealer visit at the time, and wasn't trying to find the problem. I did get a nice kick in the back from his hard acceleration onto the highway at one point, but that's a short burst of power. Could the gas mileage and/or lack of power issues have been related to the bad MAF and VSV? I'm assuming that these two issues might not be resolved. At least I know from this and other service records that the owner does not neglect things. The owner showed me how to scroll through the previous gas mileage performances on the display, and I saw some pretty good numbers. Resetting a trip odometer for my test drive, I don't recall the exact average mpg, but it was only somewhere around 35, but we weren't exactly driving normally testing the car out, and it was relatively brief.

A final concern about the car is some marks on the lower right part of the front bumper cover/fascia and (likely related) missing clips or rivets between the front bumper cover and the front wheel well liners. I don't think there was a serious accident because the bumper cover wasn't replaced, and it's not cracked anywhere. I tried looking under the front bumper, but an underbody plate blocked the view. I suppose there's possibility of the bumper support being damaged or bent underneath. But the marks in the bumper are low, lower than where the bumper sticks out most, and lower than where the structural bumper supports presumably are. So I'm guessing the impact probably just flexed the bumper cover and popped the clips or rivets loose - and broke the wheel well liner on the right side. I can track this event down to sometime before a 123K service where, among normal service items there is this:

BODY RELATED SVC​

BODY RELATED SVC ~|~OWNER REQUESTS TO REPLACE THE BROKEN/DAMAGED RIGHT FRONT INNER WHEEL WELL LINER & REQUIRED HARDWARE - SPECIAL ORDER PARTS ARE IN ~|~BROKEN ~|~REPLACED THE RIGHT FRONT INNER WHEEL WELL LINER & HARDWARE​

CLIP 9046707215 1​

CLIP 9046709227 1

LINER, FR FENDER, RH 5387547030 1

SCREW, W/WASHER TAPP 9015960488 1

PIECE, RR BUMPER 5216102020 1

CLIP 9046710183 1

CLIP, PIN HOLD 4774958010 1​

Right now, it looks like some of those clips on the front edge of both front wheel wells, adjacent to the bumper cover are missing and need to be replaced or riveted back on. On the plus side, there are no engine or suspension related components or wheels or tires replaced due to impact, and probably no visit to a body shop because they would have made it look nicer instead of using touch up paint . All visible metal body panels, including under the hood and with the doors open are original, dent free, and have matching VIN. It drives straight. If I buy the car, I probably don't do much repair here other than getting some clips or rivets put in to prevent possible flapping/movement. It looks minor, like the lower bumper was run into a high curb or parking lot stop.

Anyone want to comment on any of the issues? Are there any huge red flags? I'll wait for it to pass the smog test now. It's the seller's responsibility anyway, but I was willing to risk doing the (free) retest after the purchase to get the transaction done today. Since the transaction didn't happen, I'll put that back on the seller. I'm also leaning towards asking the owner if I can get a pre-purchase inspection done. Art's Automotive is 4 miles from his house - I've read articles on their website, and they seem excellent. The main thing would be the distance from where I'm located at, and the need to stay all day in Berkeley with nothing to do except wait for the car. Not sure the owner would go for it, but I don’t think he would object too much since he already has $300 from me.

 

From what I saw on the results sheet, they didn't measure tailpipe concentrations. They saw the check engine light and failed the car due to that before measuring anything. I don't know because I'm not a California resident, but I doubt they would insist on waiting a week - what about people needing fixes to sell cars or meet registration renewal deadlines? The dealer told the seller, who told me (but both of us not really understanding cars that well) that the sensor (MAF) needs to be used for a tank of gas. Does that need to settle in somehow? If it really is just time since it the code was reset, we should be good to go when I see the car again after new year's.

That's very good to hear. Having seen the invoice, it was a $8xx repair for the seller (with 10% discount), so he was definitely bummed about that.

Looked at a front wheel well of an undamaged parked Gen3 on my dog walk this morning, and figured out that the sheet metal screw sticking out is normal and not a kludge. So the car I'm looking at is only missing that screw on one side, plus the clip in front/below that on both sides... totally minor.

 

OK, I'm guessing it's been driven only 10-20 miles with my test drive since it was repaired. I met the seller at the dealer immediately after the repair. I'll advise the seller that he should drive it more when he gets back before getting it smogged, but will leave having it pass smog his responsibility. Maybe he can get a friend to drive it while he's gone. I'll do a search on readiness codes resetting themselves to learn more.

Thanks. Good to know that I won't have to order the fasteners from the dealer.

I'm probably going to buy this car. It's been serviced at the dealer, which is good, but also means that they are inspecting transaxle fluid at intervals, but assuming it will perform for the life of car, and inspecting but not necessarily replacing coolant. I looked through the Toyota Owners service records and tried to identify the last fluid changes were done. It is at 150,000 miles. Last oil change was as 149K, so that's good. I'm going to get the transaxle fluid changed right away, since that appears to never have been done. The following was done at 61K. Can anyone tell me if the coolant service that is mentioned is inverter coolant or engine coolant? It says one unit of super long life coolant was used. I'll probably get both inverter and engine coolant changed right away too, but I'm curious which was done before.




60K SERV;OIL,FILTER,SERV BRAKES, COOLANT CK CHRG SYS,T/B,EFI SERV ICE,REPL AIR FIL 19 PT.INSP LIGH TS,BELTS,HOSES,BATT,ROTAT CHANGE OIL AND FILTER, ROTATE TIRES, C LEAN AND ADJUST BRAKES. FRONT BR AKES AT 8MM GOOD REAR BRAKES AT 8MM GOOD. TIRES AT 7/32NDS. PERF ORM COOLANT SERVICE. PERFORM THR OTTLE BODY SERVICE. PERFORM FUEL INJECTION SERVICE. REPLACE AIR FILTER. REPLACE CABIN FILTER. CH ECK BELTS AND HOSES. CHECK BATTE RY AND LIGHTS. PERFORM 19PT INSP ECTION. ALL LOOKS GOOD. (42- MARR/KELLEY-) 60K SERV: LUBE, O IL & FILTER; TRANS, DIFF(IF APPL YS) COOLANT EFI SERVICE, THROTTL E BODY,CK CHARGE SYSTEM,BATTERY, REPLACE AIR FILTER,19 PT INSP. H OSES,BELTS,LIGHTS. ~|~| ~|~|

Parts
Name Part # QTY
BRAKE CLEAN BC 1
W/S WASHER SOLV WW 1
FUEL SYS/FLUSH 01270 1
THROTTLE PLATE CLEAN 002891TP00 1
SUPER LONG LIFE COOL 00272SLLC2 1
REPLACEABLE ELEMENT 04152YZZA6 1
GASKET 9043012028 1
0W20-SINGLE QUART (W 002790WQTE01 5
ELEMENT SUB-ASSY, AI 1780137021 1
ELEMENT, AIR REFINER 87139YZZ10 1

 

I ended up purchasing this car the other day. The car had yet another check engine light come on before the seller could get it smog checked. The dealer replaced the air/fuel ratio sensor, which had gone off calibration when the MAF was bad. Between the two dealer visits that were necessary to get the car smogged, the seller paid out about $1300 to the dealer. Bad luck for him, but good for me. On the way back, I stopped by low price keys in San Francisco (a tip from Priuschat) to get a second key - a great deal with great service.

The low gas mileage (35 mpg) issue that the seller had complained about 1,000 miles back was not in evidence for me. The drive back from Oakland to SF to San Jose was my first, and so far only, real drive of the car. At first it seemed the gas mileage readings were low whenever the ICE kicked in, but it was probably just warming up. The ICE shut off at appropriate times, etc. I ended up getting in indicated 57.7 mpg for my first drive in a Prius (about a 65 mile trip). I guess watching those how-to-drive-prius videos helped .

So, according to toyota owners, my car had the inverter failure problem at 127,468 miles. They didn't replace the whole inverter, but replaced the IPM, and used a plug kit, etc. There was a line for the toyota super long life coolant in that job, so I should be safe to assume that I can count that as the last inverter coolant change. Is 50,000 miles a good interval for the next inverter coolant change? If so, I'll skip it for now, and just do the transaxle fluid change and ICE coolant change (possibly done at 37K and 61K according to carfax and/or toyota owners... which seem to have slightly different data at times).

The most noticeable issue with the car at the moment is the odor which is reminiscent of seawater. I had noticed it the first time I looked at the car, and assumed that it was fixable. I found out what the cause was when I looked under the compact spare tire. There was a half gallon or more of water under there and to the left side (little under the 12V battery), along with a bunch of debris, coins, tiny broken glass. The seller lives on a boat currently, so something really wet must have been put in the back and let to drip. Gross. I got that cleaned out, and it's a bit better. If shampooing the carpet doesn't get the smell out, I might buy an ozone generator and do a shock treatment to kill any possible mildew. I read edthefoxes recommendation for AC evaporator cleaning, and I'll also do the Kool It treatment. I don't think there is any odor from the ventilation system, but I might as well do it.

Is it safe to assume that the car is covered for 15 years (until 2025) from any further inverter issues from the same cause (those specific trouble codes)? I don't see a sticker indicating a warranty enhancement, and I don't see anything on the toyota owner's site about the vehicle.

 

No, I bought it after it passed smog. The fixes that I mentioned were taken care of and paid for by the seller - and was the reason for the two week delay in purchasing the car. He was just telling me what was happening, and I was confirming it on the toyota owners site and also on the service invoices.

 

It did have the E0E software re-flash at 123,833, only several thousand miles before the inverter failed. My interpretation from the previous threads is that I would be covered, but I'm not worried enough to ask the dealer. As you said, the inverter system should be very reliable now. If it does somehow fail again before 2025, I'll ask if it is covered before shelling out money.

I read about other recall to reprogram the brake ECU. I didn't see this in the toyota owners service records, so I don't know for sure if it has been done. But the toyota owners site says, "There are no open Safety Recalls or Special Service Campaigns for your vehicle." So can I assume that it was done at some point?

 

Thanks for that tip. That PDF explains why mine probably doesn't have the issue, why it wasn't recorded in the service records, and why my car doesn't have an open recall. The affected cars were produced March 2009 to early October 2009. According to carfax, NICB says my car was manufactured and delivered to California on June 18, 2010.

 

I found one thread on this. It seems like it was caused by leaf/needle/organic debris flowing down into the taillight and clogging the drain. It doesn't look like removing the taillight to check for this is very simple, so I won't check unless I get more water. There are stains in the back suggestive of my guess of wet dripping gear, but the cause could be either. The plastic tray underneath was dry, but that could easily be dumped out without noticing water under the spare tire.