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2009 Prius - desludge?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by hiljak, Dec 26, 2015.

  1. hiljak

    hiljak Junior Member

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    Hey guys, I have gen2 that I've had since it had 20k on the clock and it just rolled 180k. Its been so so solid needing nothing but oil, tires, and blades for about 100k. It had a recall to change the inverter pump but other than that, its never been in the shop.

    I've change oil myself at about 5k. At about 150k or so, it started doing this shuddering like it was missing on a cylinder sometimes when the cars was coming to stop and cutting off the ice. Its like it didn't want to die and instead missed for a few seconds. No check enige light or miss codes. This was not happening all the time and I didn't really nail what particular circumstance led to it, although it seemed to happen more when I was low on gas. It progressed though to a kind of knocking that sounded like it threw a rod. I ended up changing the plugs and ignitors as a shotgun approach and the problem actually did seem to help. It still happened some but not as much and less fierce.

    Soo.. At about 170k, I was coming down my driveway which is very steep (like 45 degree), and the red triangle came on. I dropped the oil and it was maybe a quart of black super thick nasty oil. Changed it about a 1000 miles ago and its definetley burned some. Maybe a quart? Ill change it again an be more scientific about it.

    Last night I pulled the injectors to clean them and there was oil in the injector electrical connectors, and it looks like oil maybe had been leaking out of the oil cap or maybe from valvle cover. Cleaned it well and will see what it looks like after some miles but when I had the injectors out, I could see sludge in there. Should I go ahead and pull the valve cover for inspection?

    The car is still running fine with no CEL? I'm wondering of the vlavles and/or rings are sludged and that's what's been behind the shuddering. Engine may be borked tho from the super low oil event. Looking for advice.
     
  2. hiljak

    hiljak Junior Member

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    Also forgot that night I also changed the pcv (that was original with 180k miles on it) and cleaned the throttle body and maf. Small amount of oil pooled in throttle body. Not much tho. Few mils.
     
  3. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    How about cleaning the air throat and sensor?
     
  4. hiljak

    hiljak Junior Member

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    Is the air throat where the maf is located? I did clean that and the maf really well with maf cleaner.
     
  5. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    It's the air intake, I forgot what MAF stands for
     
  6. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    With all that sludge, I would be really concerned. The Prius engine is normally very clean. Poor combustion ? .? After its warmed up do you rev it up good from time to time. This cleans any soot or non- combustibles still in cylinders. Moisture, rust, carbon etc.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i suppose it might depend on the average type of driving over the life of the car. although, 180k over six years should be a pretty good workout for the engine.
     
  8. hiljak

    hiljak Junior Member

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    Yea it gets a lot of use. I'm a consultant and drive this thing all over. Around 33k/year. I was thinking about maybe a piston soak but wonder if I should tear the valve cover off for a better look. Anyone done it? I have another vehicle to drive if the pri needs to be down for a few.
     
  9. andrewclaus

    andrewclaus Active Member

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    Many of the Gen 2 ICEs start burning some oil somewhere past 150K miles. There are some good threads on that on this site. It is (or was) time to start checking the dipstick at the gas station.

    The oil in the throttle body is normal, part of the VVT operation I hear.

    I've had rough idle at shut down in my '07 since day one. It's consuming the last gas vapors. I've never heard noise. If you got 150K miles on the spark plugs, it's not surprising changing them helped. Are the motor mounts OK?

    Sorry I can't address the oil in the spark plug wells. I haven't seen that one yet.

    Is the sludge a dark mayonnaise consistency? If so, it's from vapor either from coolant or combustion, rings or head gasket. It may be time for a compression test. Or a different engine. If you've never changed coolant, that could maybe cause some issues, too.

    The transaxle may be next if ATF and coolant have never been changed (when they did the inverter pumps on recall, they usually recycled the old coolant). And you've probably about hit the expected lifetime of "lifetime ATF."
     
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  10. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    I'll leave that for someone more experienced, I think I remember that sludge can be the symptoms of a cracked block or sleeve. if that's the case you should be loosing radiator water. Good Luck.
     
  11. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    …anyone mentioned sparking-plugs yet?

    Edit: Sorry! I should read more carefully!
     
    #11 WilDavis, Dec 26, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2015
  12. hiljak

    hiljak Junior Member

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    Good tips. For sure the atf fluid has never been changed and i bet you're right on the recycled inverter coolant fluid. I'll read up and change those.

    Now that I look back objectively, I've really done the bare minimum maintenance as needed like an nice person. The original drive belt was just changed at 175k. I happened to notice how frighteningly bad it was cracked when I was changing the oil. Yikes. I'll post some pics of this champion of all belts later.

    I changed the front rotors and pads at 150k because the rotors were rusted out pretty bad. I shit you not, the pads still had some life on them. I put all new toyota brand brake parks back on because they're obviously designed well and worh the money. Also changed the front struts.

    The pri is paid off and still very nice to drive so I'd actually consider replacing the engine if it had to be done. My girls not ready for scrap yard just yet!
     
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  13. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    Good show, might as well do the radiator flush too. There are a few drains scattered around, one behind and under the engine. Refills and purging air is a bit tricky and time consuming, just keep a eye on temperatures while doing it as you must also run the engine.
     
  14. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Either you never change the oil or you blew a head gasket and you have coolant in the oil. Look in the rad not the overflow for low coolant.

    Surprised it lasted this long given your lack of maintenance. Either way if you ran it low on oil its done. The piston wrists, upper connecting rods & cyl walls are splash lubricated. When the oil is almost gone no more splash. Thats why it important to keep the oil at the top mark on your dipstick at all times. Usually the upper connecting rods overheat and the wrist pins fail first. Put the engine in Inspection mode and get under the car and listen to the bottom end. Probably some thumping and banging go on there down under.

    Don't put any money into this motor. I would drive it till it goes. Goes dramatically with the upper rod coming off the piston and away it goes thru the block. Lots of posts about that here. All low oil poor maintenance and hard driven.
     
  15. hiljak

    hiljak Junior Member

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    Yes the coolant is low in the radiator. Don't see any looking down the neck. No signs of coolant leaking so I guess that implies the head gasket blew? I listened to it run in inspection mode and it didn't sound noticeably loud to me. I took some video and I'll upload it. I think I'll change the oil again and strain what comes out to see if there's any sign of components coming apart. Damn!
     
  16. hiljak

    hiljak Junior Member

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    Car also smokes white smoke.
     
  17. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    This sounds like engine coolant is getting into the combustion chambers due to a blown head gasket. You may want to do a compression test or leak down test, but based upon your description it does sound like that engine is going to need replacing.

    The good news is that used Prius engines are pretty cheap - probably $500 or less - because there is little demand for them. The major cost will be the labor associated with the engine swap.
     
    #17 Patrick Wong, Dec 27, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2015
  18. hiljak

    hiljak Junior Member

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    I have more good news. I drained the oil that's only been in for about 1,000 miles and it was really thin and bubbly. Definitely has coolant in it. I strained it through a screen and didn't find any metal debris. I also pulled the plugs and looked at them. They are prerry grey.white and all four plugs are wet with oil on the threads. (I took some pics). I can see some sludgey buildup on the pistons when I take a pic down the spark plug holes with my phone.

    With all this would you definitely recommend replacing the engine at this point? I would rather just get on with it if it's warranted rather that drive it until it fails. I found some engines available a few hours from me in Columbus, OH with under 100k for $400 to $500. One says 79k for $550. Would I be able to get a decent idea if the motor has been maintained by peeking in the spark plug holes and injector holes with a small 5mm inspection cam? Anything else key to look for on an already removed engine?
     
  19. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I would recommend replacing the engine.

    An alternative would be to attempt to replace the engine cylinder head gasket only. I suspect the engine has suffered significant damage from the lack of lubricant and coolant - hence the labor effort to replace the cylinder head gasket probably will be wasted.

    I would not suggest continuing to drive the car with visible exhaust emissions out the tailpipe, as that may constitute a violation of your local law and certainly would be an anti-social act.
     
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  20. hiljak

    hiljak Junior Member

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    anything else that should be done why the engine is out that would normally be a huge pain? I want to keep the car for a while. Also, any tips on checking out used engines that have already been removed?